2011 f150 3.5L Ecoboost bank 1 rich?

lmorris · October 17, 2014

Our normal gas tech is off and I have this one to look at. 107,000 kms so I did the whole tune-up thing first. long term fuel trims are bank 1 -25% bank 2 -12%. reset trims and run short term on bank 1 hits -21% immediately. Very slight rough idle and had good acceleration. Visual inspection looks good. All bank 1 and 2 O2 sensors are reading the same. Although when the catalyst monitor is running, bank one downstream O2 seems a little off when compared to bank 2. Any ideas or experience with these engines would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

forddieseldoctor · October 18, 2014

It wasn't an ecoboost, but I had an aftermarket air filter giving me a rich code on a 5.4 in a superduty.

8WA Sman · October 18, 2014

Make sure Evap purge is not stuck (monitor FTP_H20 pid)and crankcase in not overfull with gas. Bank 1 has gets the PCV, correct? Did power balance or fuel system test show anything?

YukonTyler · October 18, 2014

i know you said visual is good, but i've done more than a few exhaust manifolds on these. any whistle sounds from the turbocharger? black soot at the back near #3?

the other thing which comes to mind is timing chains. i've seen a couple with a stretched primary chain and a couple with weak tensioners on the secondary chains. i wonder if something is off just a hair. already mentioned, but power balance results?

the overfilled crankcase is another common point. these trucks seems susceptible to damaged catalysts as collateral damage. if you do discover this then i am hesitant to accept ford's gospel surrounding a new block heater and pcm programming. i seem to have stopped a few from building oil with new high pressure pumps.

lmorris · October 20, 2014

Thanks for all the tips guys. I did check the chain and the cam sensor is showing it's good, there was an SSM for that. Oil level and condition were good. No exhaust leaks that I could see. I do recall the O2 sensor readings were lower on bank 1 than bank 2 when I started the engine, I saw this after the fact because I didn't think to monitor them KOEO. After talking to the gas tech he said it was the O2 sensor going biased. The customer took the truck over the weekend, but I suspect he will be back soon enough when the MIL comes on again.

8WA Sman · October 20, 2014

I do recall the O2 sensor readings were lower on bank 1 than bank 2 when I started the engine, I saw this after the fact because I didn't think to monitor them KOEO. After talking to the gas tech he said it was the O2 sensor going biased.

What pid are you watching KOEO? I have had an older F-Series that had an O2 sensor that would go biased @ idle hot, it would set a P0153(B2S1 slow response) but I have not experienced a new style universal H20S/ A/F sensor go biased.

Just curious what code yours setting?

lmorris · October 21, 2014

p0172 was original code. Now it also has a P0016 crank cam correlation bank 1. According to the TSB it is not a stretched chain because it reads 1.5 degrees, bank 2 reads .3 degrees. On start-up bank 1 is 11 degrees and bank 2 is 8 degrees. After running for a few seconds they drop. Power balance is erratic with 1,2,3 all going low. I wonder if I have a cam phaser issue. Sent off info to hotline for some answers.

Edit, pulled right valve cover and checked the tensioner. The chain is stretched. Makes sense now. General tech is tackling that job. All I have to do is put his old O2 sensor back in.

mchan68 · October 22, 2014

Edit, pulled right valve cover and checked the tensioner. The chain is stretched. Makes sense now. General tech is tackling that job. All I have to do is put his old O2 sensor back in.

is it warranty or retail? Let me know how long it takes. Let me know if he pulls the cab or not. I've already done two.

YukonTyler · October 22, 2014

mike, if you can get the cab off in an hour or so then i'd say it would be worth it to put it in the air. you know yourself that chains isn't a difficult job, it's more the fact that it's a pain leaning over the rad all day. worst part of the job is still the re and re of all the intake plumbing/cac tubes and prying off the seized on valve covers.

warranty time on the front cover is 8-ish, with another 0.3 to re and re the chains. leaving the cab on it's definitely an attainable labour time but it's hardly a get rich quick scheme.

my bay is a four post so no cab off for me. i'll start chains at 8 in the morning and have it wrapped up and running around 3 or 3:30. buddy a few stalls over yanks the body whenever given the chance and has them done an hour and a bit faster than me.

i'm yet to do one retail. i called one a month ago - told the guy 12 hours to do his leaking front cover as per book time - and he promptly asked me if i thought insurance would cover it. 2012 King Ranch with 120 000 km and the guy can't shell out to fix his $65 000+ pick em up truck. :banghead:

lmorris · October 22, 2014

Retail, truck left, no work done.

Also, to those that do these, I recommend monitoring the pid during start-up. Because I did not do this it messed up the rest of my diagnosis.

batmantech · October 22, 2014

P0016 in the next stall tsb 14-0194 took a pic of the new and old chains hanging from a screwdriver. The tsb and hotline makes no reference on how to easily verify the stretched with chain in place, anyone know? Other than putting the cam holders in place.

lmorris · October 22, 2014

Hotline told us to remove the right valve cover and use a borescope to look at the tensioner. If you can see 5 or more teeth showing then you have a stretched chain.

Steve Mutter · October 23, 2014

So why are these chains stretching? I see now that the tsb calls for synthetic oil, I wonder if regular 5w30 is to thick in the cold weather.

8WA Sman · October 23, 2014

Looks like maybe I will get to be doing timing chains sometime on the one I work on, sometimes it comes in with between 6 and 10k on synthetic blend oil.

mchan68 · October 23, 2014

So why are these chains stretching?

I was asking this same very question myself, and my own personal theory is this. I think having a single chain driving four cams (well, the other two indirectly) puts a lot of stress on it. This, combined with a chain tensioner that has relatively little travel before it reaches the end of its travel of adjustment combine to put valve timing out just enough for the PCM to detect it and call our attention to it for repair. You don't see this problem on the 4.6/5.4/6.8 engines because they all use one chain per bank of cylinders, along with tensioners for each chain that put it under constant pressure with engine oil pressure. For what it's worth, I put 460,000 kms. on my previous vehicle equipped with a 4.6 that I never needed to get inside the engine, including the timing chain, before I got rid of it, only due to body rust issues. Had the body held up, I would probably still be driving it.

mchan68 · October 23, 2014

Retail, truck left, no work done.

I guess buddy didn't like the retail labour quote eh? :haha2:

batmantech · October 23, 2014

I did notice the chain material is different than previous engines.

lmorris · October 23, 2014

The chains on the first run of these engine were made from crap metal. They changed the metal in 2012. At least that is what I heard.

Aaron · October 23, 2014

Quality of the parts probably is key.

This is comparing apples to oranges, but my small block has 10+ years on it, 7000rpm blasts at the track with a 330lb open pressure on the valve springs and a flat tappet cam so there's a pile of load on it. Chain has 0 slop in it.

Aaron · October 23, 2014

The chains on the first run of these engine were made from crap metal. They changed the metal in 2012. At least that is what I heard.

This

tonybullitt · March 15, 2015

I asked about why the full synthetic oil when at the trp meetings. I got a strange look then later I was told that it is a misprint and is going to be changed.