06 e-450 oil leak from the valley

[the_twig_187]

Have a 06 E-450, takes a long time to build up icp pressure (crank for over 10 sec) in order to start. Once started there is a steady flow of oil running down the edge of the left head (where the head meets the block in the valley) just wondering if there are any common leak spots such as turbo o-ring or such items?

 

Going to move the turbo to get a better view but I don't want to over look something during the removal process

 

Thank guys

[Keith Browning]

Unless it has recently been apart or is coming apart on it's own, the turbo is not high on my list of suspects. Oil pressure sensors commonly leak as do the oil cooler cover gaskets. I would add 3oz of UV dye to the oil (pre-mixed with a quart of oil) and run it with my UV light in my hand... this usually pinpoints leaks for me.

[cbriggs]

I have seen one test port plug come loose on top of the pump, and do just what you are describing.

[the_twig_187]

ahh I wish it was that but I air tested the system and no leaks were found. but when running the vehicle is when the stream of oil starts to flow from the front down to the bell housing

[the_twig_187]

so I think I found the source of the leak, the oil pressure sensor which is mounted on top of the oil cooler housing seems to have a lot of oil around the sensor body and the wiring harness plugging into the sensor is wet with oil

[Keith Browning]

Excellent!

[Matt Saunoras]

E-series like to flatten gaskets because of how hot they run. It's not uncommon to have oil cooler cover gaskets and rocker box gaskets flattened and hard as a rock. Sounds like you have a high pressure oil leak too. By chance it's not the rear cover cracked from a dislodged STC?

[Keith Browning]

I have actually seen more F-Series leaking from collapsed oil cooler cover gaskets than E-Series.

[the_twig_187]

Vehicle is no longer leaking oil but has a dead miss on cyl 1,3.... Recommended all four on the right bank and dummy plug and standpipe if not allready done...waiting for approval

[the_twig_187]

so I have replaced all four injectors on the right bank as per the customers request. cranked the engine and this time it started all on its own, BUT its running like a bag. hooked up the ids and cylinder 1 and 3 are down again!!! four new injectors, buzz test is good ( all 8 respond) and relative compression test is good with only a 1% difference on cylinder 2.

 

im stumped??? what could be causing a dead miss on those cylinders?

[Matt Saunoras]

Run your buzz test to make sure they're all alive. I have seen ficms and injectors fail at the same time, when that happens its hard to know which one caused the other.

 

Or you could have a lifter out to lunch

[the_twig_187]

yes I ran a buzz test just after putting the injectors in so that I didn't reassemble and run into this... did a buzz test after everything was put back togeather and all 8 buzz the exact same a one another??? a lifter gone bad would cause a compression loss on those affected cylinders, no ?

[Matt Saunoras]

Relative compression can be tricky when it's a valvetrain concern. I am always suspicious of it. I know it's hard to do on an e-series but a manual compression test may be needed. When the engine is running you're not getting a popping sound through the intake are you?

[the_twig_187]

no abnormal noises are heard when the vehicle is running other than the heavy misfire from two dead cylinders on the right bank. here is what the PIDS read when I'm cranking the engine

 

FICM-m-power= 48v

FICM-SYNC=yes

IPR=85%

ICP= starts at 0 and over the course of 10 seconds builds to approx 1000psi and then the truck starts(when shut off pressure returns to 0 in a matter of seconds)

ICP-V=0.25v

ICP-Desired=3000psi

 

cylinder 1 and 3 are the two front cylinders on the right bank, could they be starving for high pressure oil because the pump is not creating enough volume? this is my first real tricky repair and I'm trying to do a proper diag and take care of the customer responsibly as the customer brought the vehicle to us from another dealer that he lost trust in as they just threw parts at this trying to fix it and after 5 grand the truck still would not start (they replaced EGR cooler and oil cooler).

 

I called hotline and they said to pull both valve covers and do a bunch of pre test steps (like remove the crank sensor, unplug FICM relay ect...) and then test the high pressure pump and the branch tubes.

 

anybody have any ideas?

[Buddy_M]

Is the ICPV irratic in data stream by any chance? I had one where 2 injectors on the right back showed down, replace injectors to no change. After almost pulling my hair out I found the check valve/pulsation dampener in the standpipe was broken and causing hell with only 2 of the 4 right injectors. Replaced standpipe and all was good. I could blow thru the old one, however you shouldn't be able to with a new/good one.

[the_twig_187]

very interesting.... (rubbing thumb and index fingers on chin and closing eye lids slightly) I replaced the upper standpipe section with the new T-12 style plug but I DID NOT replace the lower half of the standpipe due to the fact that I have never even heard of them failing before.

 

I will update you guys tomorrow when I crank while closely viewing the IPC voltage and possible going into the right valve cover again "uhhhhhh"

[Buddy_M]

The check/dampener is in the upper half that you replaced already then, the lower is just the hollow supply tube.

[the_twig_187]

Ahhh dam... I thought we had something there

[8WA Sman]

What I am seeing is the harness was moved to replace the sensor now there is a mis? Sounds like an electrical issue. Why does it wait until 1,000 psi to fire the injectors, then again the ICP PSI is inferred, what is the ICP volts when it starts?

[Matt Saunoras]

The long crank may just be from the air in the oil rail after having the system opened up. I wouldn't worry about it yet because the engine starts and runs.  Nothing sticks out in my mind that is special to cylinders 1 and 3.  Since you changed all the injectors on that side it rules out combustion gas in the fuel rail.  Also the standpipe was changed (get in the habit of changing the whole thing not just the top). If it was a fuel pressure issue I don't think you'd be getting fuel past 1 & 3 all the way to 5 & 7. 1 and 3 aren't pair cylinders so it shouldn't be a sync issue.  You mentioned you were going to change the dummy plug, did you?  ICP_V needs to be .8v to start and should be 1.0v idling.  If it's not changing from .25v that's a problem. 

 

I would start with a test FICM (if ones available), and after that go for some base engine.  Check the rockers for proper movement once the oil rail is back off. 

Sometimes the 6.0 needs a little while to get running on all cylinders after everything has been opened up.  A lot of times a miss will be present after changing one or more injectors and it clears up once the air works its way out of the oil and fuel.  Usually a key off and a restart is enough. 

[the_twig_187]

So here is the whole story, truck has 450,000 km and has been sitting for over 8 months. Towed in for a no crank/ no start. Replaced the starter and we now have crank. Had to shoot ether in air intake to get it to start and run. Once running we discovered the oil leak pouring from the oil pressure sensor. Fixed the sensor and now we have no oil leak. Truck still won't start on its own and must use ether. Once running cylinder 1&3 are a dead miss. Did the buzz test and condemned injector 1&3. Replaced all four on right bank and dummy plug and standpipe are updated T-12 style. Reassemble and truck now starts on its own but cylinder 1&3 are still a dead miss. This is where we are at now.

 

The dummy plug was previously updated to the T-12 but the standpipe was not so I did the upper standpipe. Icp-v= 0.25v with the key on engine off. I will start it again tomorrow and let you know what happens to icpV during cranking and while it's running

 

Thank you guys so much for the help I really appreciate it

[mchan68]

This may be a stupid question, but how long have you let the engine run since all this work? Have you run it up to 3800 RPMs for about 5 five minutes (to prime the HPO system) and let the engine reach operating temperature? Doing this should alleviate the extended engine cranking required for subsequent engine restarts.

 

EDIT: Ether is never a good chemical to use. I've seen my share of casualties from using as such in my time. If you MUST use a "temporary alternative fuel source", brake parts cleaner is less volatile. An engine runaway is not a pretty sight either.

[the_twig_187]

No I have not let it run for very long at all. Just a mater of a few short moments as I didn't want to run it on six cylinders for fear that I may cause further damage.

 

You suggest letting it run and heat up and increase the rpm to approx 3500 rpm for 5min?

[Matt Saunoras]

Once all the cylinders are contributing properly run it hard. Until all the air is out of the fuel rail running it at more than an idle is not good for the injectors.

[the_twig_187]

so i started the truck this morning while watching ICPv pid and while cranking for a long time (10sec) the voltage stays at .025v and then the pressure starts to build slowly 200-300-500-600 psi and thats when the icpv also starts to increase and once running the icpv is at 1.3v and the two cylinders 1&3 are still a dead miss. trying to hear any poping noises from teh valve train is kinda hard on a diesel engine (with it naturall being so loud) should i take off the cold side CAC tube and listen for poping noises such as a dammaged lifter?