amailloux Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I am trying to come up with a labor time for oil cooler, egr cooler, injectors, fuel pressure regulator kit, and installing a bunch of missing or incorrect bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm sure you'll get lots of different answers on this one. I charge 15 hours to do the EGR cooler and oil cooler combo on E-Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Parts Information OEM Part # Price EGR Cooler Cooler 4C3Z9P456AJ $505.57 Labor Information Skill Level Mfg. Warranty Standard EGR Cooler Replace B 6.6 8.8 NOTE With Dual Alternators, Add B 0.3 0.4 Oil Cooler, Engine Oil Cooler Contact dealer for most current part and price information. 3C3Z6A642BB $583.33 Labor Information Skill Level Mfg. Warranty Standard Oil Cooler, Engine Replace B 7.0 9.8 NOTE With Dual Alternators, Add B 0.3 0.4 Fuel Injector Injector Contact dealer for most current part and price information. 4C3Z9E527AB $307.69 Labor Information Skill Level Mfg. Warranty Standard Fuel Injector Replace Right Bank B 4.9 6.6 Left Bank B 3.4 4.6 Both Banks B 7.3 9.8 NOTE With Dual Alternators, Add B 0.3 0.4 I can't find the fuel pressure regulator, because FMC calls the IPR that, and it keeps taking me to the IPR. I'd probably add .5 or 1.0 while you're in there. I usually add 10% time for each year the truck has aged to compensate for rusted shit. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I would probably do 16 plus diag. I like to clean the turbo any time it's out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amailloux Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 I like that 10% rule. I mentioned 24 hours out the door roughly to the customer including dot inspection, ps pump, rcm, and pretensioner, fuel filters, lof and rotate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I think 16 is really light. EGR cooler, CP, 8.8, Oil cooler CP 9.8, all injectors 9.8, dual alts add 1.2, = 29.6. I realize there's duplication there but 16 is light. I think 29 is light when you add in the maintenance. I didn't buy it or break it, and it ain't my fault it's here. This is not an easy truck to work on, make it worth your while. When I had the shop we did all T&M, I didn't quote in hours, it was usually easier to think of days. You need to put some extra time in this one for when shit goes wrong. Good Luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Wow I totally read over the "injectors" part. Scratch that 16 hours, that's just for coolers. Also if the intake manifold is out you can sneak that right valvecover out without removing the left engine mount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I also skipped past the injector part. I'd be leaning more towards the 25 hour mark for all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amailloux Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 Quoted 29 for engine work. Additional for DOT inspection and maintenance, ps pump, and rcm and possibly pretensioner. Customer bought it all. Advisor said about $8400 parts and labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I am in total agreement with Bruce on this one. While I am one person who is hyper-cautious about NOT clubbing customers, your time and expertise should never be under estimated and under compensated. But there are limits and adhering to standard labor times in general or at least having a standard method of determining them should be a part of how you do business. Even if you are a technician working for somebody else as in a small shop or a dealership. We have read some examples of this here on these forums. You can use OEM labor standards (yuck) or an industry publication like Alldata for example. I have a habit of using Ford SLTS operations and times then multiplying by 1.4. This usually comes close to Alldata times... or slightly above. There are always considerations like the application (what is bolted around the Ford chassis), vehicle condition and at times the relationship with the customer - take that as being good to a good customer and not insulting everyone else. For the example in this topic the 29 hour range is about right. I recently performed similar repairs on a school bus for about the same. So, you are in the ballpark. It is not uncommon for repair estimates to being in the multiples of thousands of dollars on any of these trucks. I still feel bad for the customers most of the time for having the burden of such expenses but it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I'm all too guilty of feeling bad for customers but at the same time I'm learning that I work for a business that needs a certain amount of profit to keep the doors open. It's not the same shop we used to be in. The dealership as a whole is mostly completed and now needs paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8WA Sman Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I can just comment based on some of my experiences...I would like to start be saying that the skills required for billing can be as complexed as the ones to accurately diagnose and repair vehicles. Working at a dealership can add to this complexity because the stage setup between the OE warranty/recall and customer pay is very different. I have learned it is best to have some formula or set of factors as Keith mentioned. For me I have also found that emotions should have a very small percentage of that formula, in the past when I let emotions control my billing it lacked consistency. Example: If I was making good time on my jobs I might charge less, then jobs would come in that I would lose time on and I couldn't charge more because most times I give my customers an estimate. Also one of the things that would happen is a customer may come in that is going through a bit of a rough spot and needs a break on a repair and I would be in no position to give a discount. I have also learned from business training classes that final repair orders should have a certain parts to labor percentage. One of my selling points to my customers is the difference between cost and price. Of the many things I learned from Henry Ford's book, one is about fair pricing, if pricing is not accurate or fair, it will be either a tax on the people or a tax on the business. Either situation disrupts the flow of business. The product produced should be consistent to the price charged. There are many reasons a bill can be hard to except for the customer. On the side of the business efficiency is a big one. When I was able to build my own shop instead of renting, my monthly expenses more then tripled but the increase in billed labor more then made up the difference. On the side of a customer that has a vehicle that is used for business purposes it could be that their cost of doing business figure is not correct or the vehicle in question is a bad/incorrect investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 8:07 Christmas Morning? Really? Shouldn't you be making pancakes for the girls? Those were Alldata times BTW, the first was supposedly FMC warranty, the second customer pay, and the tech rating "B" on the A/B/C scale. I don't know about the B rating, I think an A guy should be working on a 6.0 van. The CP appears to be warranty plus about 35%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amailloux Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 I Finally finished her up yesterday morning. I had to retape damn near the entire harness on the engine. also found both of the nuts inside the air intake duct to the turbo split out, the oil feed tube was bent badly, the radiator had a total of 1 bolt in the top on the side. etc.etc.etc. the turbo actuator connector had no insulation and no tangs so I put a used wire clip type on. Had about 15 nuts and bolts missing total. She is back headed to the oil field to idle for a couple weeks and then come home. I had new cramping sensations in my hand and forearm getting the center lower bolts out of the left valve cover. That is a real pia. Also I tried and the rh cover does not come out with just the intake off on this van. I had to remove the left mount, and in the process 1 bolt snapped off. oh and my left ass cheek was quite tired from laying inside. With all of that, the labor was about right. If she was a virgin, I would knock about 5 hours off. Advisor said I was 4 pennies off of the estimate on the low side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Saunoras Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Interesting, last rh valvecover I did rolled right up over the rocker box. Didn't try to pull it from either end, just straight into the valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amailloux Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 I tried every which way I could. Maybe next time. they have 3 of these all 08, and are used similarly. Oh they all have a nice big Dana 60 planted in the way up front and a big plate bolted to the crossmember that covers up the mount access holes from a quigly conversion. I had to get all of the mount bolts reaching in from the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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