Front driveshaft double cardan u-joint replacement?

[Matt Saunoras]

Anyone out there successfully attempted this? I've got a used shaft here that was replaced and scrapped by ESP and I believe the only thing wrong is the u-joints. The guy I work with says I shouldn't bother trying to replace the joints and its more trouble than its worth.

 

Any thoughts? Obviously the parts catalog shows replacements. Looking at the thing I can't visualize how it's done.

[8WA Sman]

I have not had a Ford one apart but the RAM I tried to do had what I would call needle bearings in that center section. The steel piece that rides around in those needle bearings had wear grooves in it. So at that point it would have cost too much to repair it in my opinion. I would like to add since the Ram driveshaft spins all the time and the Ford one does not, you may have better luck with the Ford one.

 

 Like this http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1081822-rebuilding-a-double-cardan-joint-vid-pics.html

[the_twig_187]

DONT BOTHER!

 

if you have no choice then...

 

but I attempted this last thursday and after 2hrs I gave up and we sent it out to a shop the specializes in balancing driveshafts, installing ujoints ect... 

 

SEND IT OUT! ....if you can

[amailloux]

If the centering ball is rusty, which they almost always are, it is a loss.  Replacing the joints is doable.  be sure the centering ball seal

is not hard or cracked, and the spring is good.  Just be very gentle as you have to hold tension on the spring as you install the caps for the inboard joint.

[Buddy_M]

I've done several. I go straight to the torch to cut the u-joint cross out and then flat air hammer bit to drive cups inward. Precision 331 ujoints and 617 is the ball kit part number if memory serves me right. Clean up the yoke bores with a flap wheel and coat with antiseize makes future work easier.

[YukonTyler]

It's a pain in the rear. I've done it twice, and when the labour bill approached the parts bill on a new shaft it's easily worth the extra bit of cash, time saved and warranty that comes with the new shaft. As stated above, if the ball and socket is hooped then it's a write off anyway. The two I've done were u-joints only. No more.

[Matt Saunoras]

The ball is a little rusty but it's not too bad.  I'm not worried about the time it takes just wasting money in parts if I can't figure it out.  I may just take it apart first and then make the decision. 

 

Buddy the precision kit 617 does exist and it isn't too expensive but I can't find mentioned anywhere that it fits a Ford. 

[forddieseldoctor]

I did the one on my truck at home in an unheated garage in the middle of winter. Piece of cake. Use a ball joint press to work them out evenly a little bit at a time.

[blown99]

Done a few myself, just the ujoints though as I could not find the center ball.  Like mentioned above, drive the cups in to remove them.  Price for this job equals a new shaft so it is not cost effective for the customer.

[Buddy_M]

I own 3 99MY trucks, so the 617 kit is the one for 99-04 trucks. Unsure what later years would be without going into the parts books. If the ball is a Lil rusty I'll hit them with a scotch brite hand pad, and also make sure you pack the small pocket where the ball goes into with grease(would be nice if it could be greased in service, unfortunately that what seems to always fail most commonly). Also worth noting, some driveshafts have the ball machined as part of the tube yoke, and to replace it requires lathe cutting it down to install the replacement ball kit. Even if the ball is intact, the kit is nice as you get a new spring, socket, and seal.

[forddieseldoctor]

I got some kit from the local parts store that had (if my memory serves me right) a new ball for my 97. I know that what I put in the center was grease-able.

 

Found it.

 

 

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Double-Cardan-CV-Centering-Yoke/_/R-PUJ608_0408531029

[cbriggs]

If all that is wrong is the u-joints then it can be fixed easily. The a/m centering ball kits do not last. I have done lots of u-joint replacements, but have given up on centering ball repairs, as they only last 6 months or so. Up here the d-shafts are around $800, tough sell sometimes. I have a collection of 15-20 shafts that all need centering balls. I am thinking of trying to sell them to a driveline shop for cores?

[Matt Saunoras]

I will post a pic of the ball if I get a chance this week, it does have surface rust on it but it's doesn't look like much more than a light coating.  This project has been sidelined temporarily due to a lack of time.

[forddieseldoctor]

I got an aftermarket one in my truck. This is the third winter on it. No problems yet. And my truck is a plow truck too.

[Aaron]

It's $240 to have the double cardan end fixed around here at the driveline shop.

[Alex Bruene]

I find repaired driveshafts don't last either.  One reason is because they use greaseable universal joints in a position that is very difficult to get a grease gun into...  and, we (I?) don't typically look for grease fittings there.

[Matt Saunoras]

I do know of one truck out there I found greasable double cardan u-joints. No way in hell a grease gun fitting was going in there, the fittings were facing the wrong way. Greasable joints are definitely cheaper. About $10 a joint.Here is the joint in question. To me it looks like the ball can be cleaned up but the boot around it appears to be cracking.  The ball is part of the yoke so it's non-serviceable I just need to get a hold of a seal if possible

 

The spicer greasable joints are 5-178x, can't find out what the life joint number is either. 

[Buddy_M]

I have a needle tip adapter that I put on my grease gun to service my truck, extends about 2 inches to seat in the check ball to allow it to be greased. No grease coupler I know of will fit in a double cardan. Check with a good aftermarket parts guy, several brands make the u-joints available with the zerk in one of the bearing caps so it can be serviced much easier without the need of the needle tip.

 

Whats the truck the drive line is from Matt? 05+? The book I have doesn't list the centering kits for them, so may be more of a challenge to get the seals and such. Those types with the attached centering ball must be cut down on a lathe to a certain diameter to allow a new ball to be installed

[cbriggs]

Matt, I would be worried about the blackish metallic film on the yoke, that is typically from the needle bearing inside the centering ball coming unzipped.

[Matt Saunoras]

Yep it's a 5C3Z part number, 05-10 I believe. When I get a chance I'll disassemble it and make the call from there. If its no good I'll junk it, I'm just curious that's all.

 

Chris I didn't even notice that until you mentioned it. Something is bound up in this thing for sure.

[cbriggs]

Usually a u joint gets tight and the extra force exerted on the centering ball tears the little tiny needle bearing out of it.

[forddieseldoctor]

I find repaired driveshafts don't last either. One reason is because they use greaseable universal joints in a position that is very difficult to get a grease gun into... and, we (I?) don't typically look for grease fittings there.

I put a greasable rear u-joint in a shuttle bus. I took a big black marker and wrote it on the underside of the hood.

[Matt Saunoras]

I just ordered a grease needle.  I forgot last week I put a napa driveshaft u-joint in an ambulance and one of the caps had a hole for a flush mounted zerk.  The old u-joint I removed had the same cap, no way it was ever serviced.  That was the first time I ever even saw a flush grease fitting. 

[Buddy_M]

If the centering ball isn't removable, then there shouldn't be a needle bearing to worry about being worn out. However the 3 pieces that usually make up the ball seat probably are wearing causing the residue. If you have a driveshaft shop they can probably find the parts you will need to make a reliable fix.

[Matt Saunoras]

Well we are practically dead so I got a chance to disassemble the old driveshaft.  That was quite a chore, you guys were all right too.  The centering ball is the source of the vibration, it's worn out and the dried grease was causing the roughness.  The u-joints were all perfectly fine, no signs of rust or wear.  There is absolutely no way replacing the u-joints customer pay would be cost effective given the labor involved.

 

That being said I found a Neapco centering ball kit and it actually appears to be the correct one.  It comes with the ball pressed into the sleeve, the little needle bearing in the ball, a seal and a spring.  The rest of the centering ball portion cleaned up very nice, it wasn't rusty at all, just dried grease.  The large external seal I posted a pic of is superficially cracked but otherwise okay.  I'm not sure where to source this thing.  The peg that rides inside the needle bearing is in great shape. 

 

So the double cardan is dissembled but that was probably the easy part.  I'll take some pics tomorrow and if I can actually get this thing reassembled and working I'm going to test it out on my 06.

 

If you don't hear anything else about this assume I failed the reassembly process.  This thing looks like it's going to be fun. 

 

edit - I may have located the large outer seal for the centering ball.  I ordered Spicer 2-86-418, we'll see if it's right.