DieselD Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Ive got a real stumper here and cant seem to nail down this issue. I will do my best at making this post make sense. The vehicle is an 04F350 with 85k 6.0 of course The concern is customer states engine rpms will surge while driving and at stops causing vehicle to surge or lunge forward. It also feels like the engine will die. This has been a problem for the customer for a long time and several dealers have tryed to fix it. I think he is on the 4egr vavle. They keep throwing them on. I doubt its a vavle I verifyed it to be a surge which sounds like a egr problem. engine pitch changes when this happens and sometimes it will lurch hard enough to move the truck. I thought I had it figured out since it felt just like a ebp problem like we were having so much trouble with early on. I had this vehicle about 3 months ago for the same concern. I got it to act up alot and very regularly. I ended up swaping alot of known good sensors one at a time to elimate anything. icp,ebp,egr vavle etc. installed the latest calibration, replaced both the ebp sensor and icp sensor pigtails. I found changing the ebp and pigtail stopped the surge. I drove it about 20miles after and never got it to happen again so I shipped it fast forward to today and its back. So far I have drivin this thing for about 1.5hrs today and have only got it to act up for a short time sitting in my stall running. not even long enough to scroll through my pids. I have a P0470 which I had the before as well. Other than that this thing runs awsome. I dont doubt the customer has had this problem more often than I have seen it happen. He has mentioned it happens worse on some days and not at all on others. Any advise or input? Im running out of ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec80 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Unplug the EBP and look at the pins of the sensor with a lighted magnifying glass. Are they corroded or do they have black fuzz on them? If so, water is probably getting in there through the connector seals or through the sensor (from the exhaust side between the plastic connector shell and the pins). Another thing to try - just unplug and reconnect the EBP connector about 5 times. If the gremlins disappear, there is definitely something contaminating the pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 DO you have a VDR? Take some "snapshots" of all the PIDS when this occurs. Is this an early or late build '04? I had one a while back for an intermittent bucking and surging with black smoke a while back. We don't have the luxury of a VDR in our shop, but I did notice the EGR cycling widly when this happened. This complaint was after the 06E17 reflash. After several "consultations" with hotline, I replaced both the MAF (with IAT1) and IAT2. That seemed to fix it. Does it stall? I have also had a few E-series in for a complaint of intermittent stalling that I couldn't figure out until one time, while monitoring PIDS, I tapped on the ICP sensor, which caused the engine to almost quit, while the ICP PID reading defaulted to 870 PSI momentarily, before it went back to the normal readings. Replacing the sensor and pigtail fixed the problem. Hope this helps. Let me know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I've been using the VDR more and more lately... sometimes all I seem to have to do to correct some running concerns is hang the pendant where the driver can see it.... Even when viewing live data, I make a LOT of recordings... makes it a lot easier than trying to scroll through a bunch of info and trying to make sense of stuff that is constantly changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 No VDR. the engine never does stall. I want to say i tried swapping mafs out the first time it was in with no luck. The EBP connector is fine, I checked it again today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Is this an early 2004 truck with a 2003 engine? (ICP sensor location) The P0470 DTC might be your best and only clue here and given that the EP sensor is right in the middle of all things important on this engine I think it deserves heavy scrutiny. From reviewing possible sources involving your symptom and code it leads us to check the wiring for the EP sensor, the EP sensor and install an updated calibration. Personally, I feel for ya. I hate the ones that you know it's got a problem but it presents the concern sporadically and usually not enough to diagnose. You REALLY need convince your manager to equip you with a CFR. It's not just for customers! You might also want to check your EP, MAP, and BARO PIDs looking for a biased sensor. Have you replaced the EP sensor and connector pigtail? If it's a 2003 engine has the ICP been replaced? Pigtail there as well? For me that has been a common source of surging at idle in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysonfordtech Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Does it act up with the egr unplugged? I would really be taking a look at the IAT 2 sensor for carbon, verify maf voltage is correct. Are you sure that the vgt is operating correct? Like ford doc said the Icp connectors are a problem as well. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 Its a late build 04(icp on right vavle cover) Its got a new EBP sensor last time it was in, it also got the pigtail. I have wiggle tested all the wiring focusing on the ebp wiring with no luck ICP has a new pigtail. IAT2 is new as well since the last one was plugged solid with carbon I cant get it to act up enough to even monitor pids, everything is good looking at it. I need to get this thing to act up so I can see what pids are doing. Thats my biggest challange at this point. yeah Ive been fighting for a VDR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I need to get this thing to act up so I can see what pids are doing. That unfortunately is your biggest obstacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 put another 50-60miles in stop and go traffic including freeway driving and got nothing. I decided to pull out the ipr and check it out. found the screen fell off and the orings not sitting corectly on the vavle. Figure I will replace that and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I had one a while back doing much the same thing. Mine had no codes in it, however. But after driving it to and from work (60 miles one way) for about a week with the WDS, I finally got it to act up. Found that the ICP reading would start to jump around at constant throttle/55mph. Not much, but enough to make the engine output change. Ended up pulling out the IPR to inspect, and found metal on the screen. New pump and IPR, another few nights of test drives, and it was fixed for good... May not be the same problem, but I hope it helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Check the EBP sensor feed tube. Had one that had a piece of floating carbon in it...drove me OUT of the business. It That was my last one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 soooo its back! doing the same thing. Im at a loss on where to go here. Ive talked to hotline on a couple occasions and get a differnt response each time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 wow, I was told not to work on this and the service manager turned this customer away and told them to go elsewhere! just because its got history at another store. rediculous....we wonder why PSD owners are pissed off! I know I can fix this if even alowed to work on it. I guess on the good side its out of my hair but now the customer is not taken care of. I thought we we supposed to be here for the customer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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