DamageINC Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Ok, so I'm one of 2 techs that do diesel work at the shop. I'm also the only one that does any heavy-engine repair.. so to make a long story short, an '05 Excursion was towed in. No start. Other tech gets it (I'm more of the "backup" diesel guy) and finds a high-pressure oil leak right where the STC fitting bolts to the branch tube - o-ring was blown apart. Checks everything - no damage, replaces the o-ring. Starts up, runs fine, he hammers on it - shuts off. No start. Double checks his work - the same o-ring blew out. Thought that maybe he just messed it up on the install. So he replaced it again. Starts up, runs fine, warms up, puts it to the floor - bam, shuts off. Checks AGAIN - same o-ring again, blown apart. At this point he really checks everything and cannot find anything physically wrong with anything down there. So he puts in one more o-ring. And the same thing happens. Now it's in my stall, and I'm putting a branch tube in it. I'd never done one of these, but after looking at the procedure I just decideed I'd be better off pulling the engine.. so I took the body off, yanked the engine, broke the starter (damn thing got stuck in the front k-member while I was lifting the engine, lol my dumb !@*!#?! didn't see it until it was too late) and replaced the branch tube. That's as far as I got today... Monday I should have it running again. I'm also replacing the HPOP, IPR, and the STC bracket. HOPEFULLY, this fixes the problem, as I can't see anything else causing it. But, jeez.. that branch tube isn't exactly easy to replace. And I can't even IMAGINE doing it in-vehicle.. has anyone here found a better way to knock this job out? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 It can be done with the heads on, following the instructions on PTS.. I cant see doing it in the truck though... Maybe someone else has had luck with it though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Not wanting to speak out of turn... why are you replacing branch tubes when the STC keeps blowing out? I've never heard of this concern (which only proves I haven't lived long enough to see "everything").... My first inclination (and this would have been at STC fitting #2 or #3) would be to make a recording of ICP and IPR when the concern appears..... UNLESS.... the other tech is like me... I have tinitis something terrible... it can mimic air leaks quite well. If there is any doubt, I always get at least two other people to listen for me (using a piece of hose as a stethoscope). I can't see myself getting too carried away on an "I think it's the..." deal. Some extra time goes a long way to preventing a chargeback or repeat repair. Another tattle tale... squirt some oil on to the suspect STC fitting and look for bubbles while air testing. Something sounds odd and I really do hope that all of your labour isn't going to end in a nasty surprise. I've had more than a couple of HPOP concerns that made patience the most useful "tool". Good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 It can be done with the heads on, following the instructions on PTS.. I cant see doing it in the truck though... Maybe someone else has had luck with it though..It would be a HUGE pain in a Ford.I have done quite a few of them in-chassis in some Nasty International tk configurations.The job In-chassis is a !@#!?$! to put it Very mildly.As far as this O-ring blowing out over and over.Obviously something else is going on here.I am wondering if the Branch tube is slightly heaved up.Then when they bolt the adapter block down on a angle like that the O-ring is lifting and getting sliced off? It is acceptable to bend the Branch tube itself down slightly if needed to Mate to the Block off the STC.International will Instruct you to do this if you have one distorted from a Fitting failure I am sure some of you guys have already had to do this before.You obviously have to do it carefully though LOL.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Ok, so I'm one of 2 techs that do diesel work at the shop. I'm also the only one that does any heavy-engine repair.. so to make a long story short, an '05 Excursion was towed in. No start. Other tech gets it (I'm more of the "backup" diesel guy) and finds a high-pressure oil leak right where the STC fitting bolts to the branch tube - o-ring was blown apart. Checks everything - no damage, replaces the o-ring. Starts up, runs fine, he hammers on it - shuts off. No start. Double checks his work - the same o-ring blew out. Thought that maybe he just messed it up on the install. So he replaced it again. Starts up, runs fine, warms up, puts it to the floor - bam, shuts off. Checks AGAIN - same o-ring again, blown apart. At this point he really checks everything and cannot find anything physically wrong with anything down there. So he puts in one more o-ring. And the same thing happens. Now it's in my stall, and I'm putting a branch tube in it. I'd never done one of these, but after looking at the procedure I just decideed I'd be better off pulling the engine.. so I took the body off, yanked the engine, broke the starter (damn thing got stuck in the front k-member while I was lifting the engine, lol my dumb !@#!?$! didn't see it until it was too late) and replaced the branch tube. That's as far as I got today... Monday I should have it running again. I'm also replacing the HPOP, IPR, and the STC bracket. HOPEFULLY, this fixes the problem, as I can't see anything else causing it. But, jeez.. that branch tube isn't exactly easy to replace. And I can't even IMAGINE doing it in-vehicle.. has anyone here found a better way to knock this job out? Dave Not for nothing Dave, but my question is whether the other tech was putting the correct o-ring in place. The kits I have recieved have 2 o-rings that fit but only one is correct. The incorrect one will blow out at WOT, or as it is max ICP. It will start and run at idle and PT all day but as soon as pressure starts toward the 4000 psi mark.... See ya. Go on ask me how I know. Trying to rush out a job and didn't pay attention to my parts selection, only made that mistake once and it will never happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 Thanks for the input guys - I should have it running sometime today. The STC fitting itself isn't blowing out, but the o-ring that seals it to the branch tube. The branch tube WAS actually bent, but not up - rather, it was bent down. The STC fitting bolts were used to draw the branch tube back to where it's "supposed" to fit... so.. we'll see what happens. Either way, I'll keep you all posted and thanks for the input. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Thanks for the input guys - I should have it running sometime today. The STC fitting itself isn't blowing out, but the o-ring that seals it to the branch tube. The branch tube WAS actually bent, but not up - rather, it was bent down. The STC fitting bolts were used to draw the branch tube back to where it's "supposed" to fit... so.. we'll see what happens. Either way, I'll keep you all posted and thanks for the input. Dave That right there tells me its the wrong o-ring. The only thing that would have happened to the branch tube is it would have cracked from being bent down then back up. This will cause a hard start when hot but not cause the o-ring to blow out. unless for some weird reason that branch tube is bent so bad its not sealing against the block for the fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Thanks for the input guys - I should have it running sometime today. The STC fitting itself isn't blowing out, but the o-ring that seals it to the branch tube. The branch tube WAS actually bent, but not up - rather, it was bent down. The STC fitting bolts were used to draw the branch tube back to where it's "supposed" to fit... so.. we'll see what happens. Either way, I'll keep you all posted and thanks for the input. Dave You CAN bend it up or down whatever way is Necessary.I have been told this By Internationals Hotline Long ago and Have had to do it On quite a Few That the STC blew completely apart and Bent the Tube pretty Bad.Drawing it up with the Bolts if its bent significantly is what They did not want us to do Because of the Stress it puts on the Inside of the Fitting.I am just relaying Info here about this and Not trying to tell you what to do.Also All the Failed branch tubes I have had to replace Have Cracked right at The Feed block where the tubes are Brazed into it.Hopefully it works out for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I had one blow apart on a 650 so bad it hit the rear cover. For some reason the rear cover on the 650s are farther away from the gear. I ddint think I could save it but I was able to bend it back . It was a good 1.5" out of place. It never cracked. good point on pulling up with bolts. Those things strip really easy. Seen another tech do it a couple times. Ive never had a problem with it but Im carefull and do it by hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Yep those bolt are not really that stout LOL..You strip em your cooked then.International mainly is concerned about Binding of the STC fitting itself if the branch is bent a good bit.Once its Under load with Oil pressure and it has a Bind up or down it can damage the lock ring inside and Possibly blow apart again or the Oring can Unseat and start leaking and Eventually blow out.You basicly want the Fitting block to lay on the Branch reciever easily with as less stress as possible.Then bolt it down.The rear covers on The VT-365 are totally different.They are cast Iron and are fairly deep.And extend out past the flywheel face a good 4" or so.Also they have the rear engine mounts on them.They are real Nutbusters to lift up in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 Well, for what it's worth, I got it running yesterday and it's holding up fine. WOT blasts at full ICP and so far all systems are green, so that's certainly better than the alternative. We just got an F-450 in with a no-start, low ICP, sure enough the STC fitting stretched apart and was banging against the rear cover enough to leave a nice gouge in it. Hopefully the branch tube is saveable because I don't know how eager I am to do another one in the same week, hehe... (then again, I'll get pretty quick with them at this rate too) Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 We have done a couple branch tubes. We lifted the body then removed the trans./transfer case as a unit by using a cherry picker. This left everything wide open and a fairly good working height to look in the rear to start your bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 That's actually a really good idea lifting the whole trans/t-case like that, I think it'll be a lot easier than pulling the engine off the frame. I'll definitely give that one a shot next time around. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.