Is the Business Different These Days?

Keith Browning · August 19, 2016

Had a couple conversations lately while discussing 6.7L diagnosis with a coworker. It seems that back in the day of the 6.0L we saw so many trucks with problems you couldn't help but learn and understand the engine, subsystems and diagnosing problems and this even transferred to the 6.4L with some new stuff thrown in. But since the 6.7L has entered the picture we see fewer trucks with problems (or so it seems - your experiences may vary) it has been a struggle for many of us to get to know and understand the 6.7L. Add in the increased complexity of the aftertreatment system and you can add a little frustration to the mix. Even getting assistance from the Hot-Line is hit or miss depending on who you talk to and with that, a Hot-Line contact via the form almost always yields a canned cut and paste response. I typically become more frustrated when contacting them because I feel as though the person on the other end really did not read and understand my question - you would think I have never read the "Description and Operation" section of the manual. So, I was wondering what you all think of this? Are things different now? Better or worse and why?

Brad Clayton · August 19, 2016

Hmmmmm, gonna have to gather some thoughts on this..my response to follow.

Matt Saunoras · August 20, 2016

I haven't really been in the business long enough to see it change. The only thing I know for sure is that it was much easier when I didn't know as much

Keith Browning · August 20, 2016

I haven't really been in the business long enough to see it change. The only thing I know for sure is that it was much easier when I didn't know as much

Maybe. Our shop has a couple of not so young anymore technicians that are blissfully cruising along doing light repairs, recalls and oil changes. I don't think they make much money. Now imagine immersing those two guys in our world given the starting post above. Look at the increased complexity of these engines and subsystems that some of us have been there as they came out. The cumulative nature in which we gained knowledge and experience. Hand one of these guys a repair order for a 2016 Super Duty with a check engine light and watch what happens.

Your statement introduces another aspect to my question. Something I have heard over and over again in the last 30 years stated in different ways. "I shouldn't have gotten certified in..." or "The more you know the less you make" or "When I move to another dealer I am gonna play stupid" or "I should let my certification lapse so they cant give me that work"

I am sure there are dozens more like those. Generally not representative of my thinking.

YukonTyler · August 23, 2016

The way in which you describe the evolution of repair to the International diesels compared to the Ford engine sounds more like a case improving quality (read: getting through the growing pains of diesel emissions). The technology is always improving and changing when it comes to engine management and aftertreatment, but because the end product is constantly improving we seem to be diving into the systems less and less. It happens in gasoline land, too. Two valve Modular V8s are around and they are generally trouble free. Slap a large demand on the oil system in the form of camshaft phasing and you wind up with the Tritons being Ford's largest junk piles in recent memory. However, improve on the design and you get the 5.0 Coyote - which save for the odd cylinder head has been pretty darn good. Same goes for the 6.2. I still have no idea what the inside of a 6.2 looks like, and for Ford and its customers that's a good thing.

As for Hotline, I get frustrated much like you do. When I use it I often repeat myself over two messages just to convey that I'm not a mouthbreather. Conversely, when I look at some of the requests that my colleagues send in I don't blame them for thinking that most of us are a bunch of idiots. Honestly, I feel the same way about most comments from customers until I have established a rapport and feel confident about the validity of the information coming my way.

One question I do have is when tech competency started. (Differences between Canada and the US might show up in the answers.) I feel that the mandatory training prior to doing warranty work is accelerating the divide between those who understand systems and those who don't. And due to the nature of the business it also affects those who get paid and those who don't. I love making war with Sync and APIM updates for 0.3 while the oil change kid cranks out pre-paid services for 1.8.

lmorris · August 23, 2016

Had a couple of Ford guys sit in on our shop meeting. Big changes guys. First off, Ford is projecting their first main stream Autonomous car by 2021. Second thing, the 2017 6.7L is a Version 2 design. The turbo oil feed tube is going to be internal. The heads and block are being re-worked. They are striving for fewer failures. This part is evident already. My boss will not hire another diesel tech, there is no demand. There is always the point of "No matter how good you make it, somebody is going to find a way to break it." My findings are that those that find ways to break it have a tendency to not want to pay to get it fixed, at least not by over priced dealerships.

DieselD · August 31, 2016

I see a little of this as well on the fleet side, I have only done minor repairs on the 6.7s unlike the 6.0 and 6.4 days. I did have a very early 2011 6.7 torn down on my last days at a dealership but that was the last major repair had my hands on. We have alot of 6.7s running around in the F550s but they really have been pretty good to us minus the turbo issues and a couple base engine failures. I just replaced my first DPF assembly this week due soot from the tailpipe. So yeah I feel like I get less of a change to learn these beasts simply because they are not breaking down. That might be worse for me since its just our fleet we are working on as well. On the bright side Im glad Im not at the dealer fighting for work like some of the other guys I know!