Talent Pool

[Keith Browning]

Is the talent pool really drying up? Seriously. We have had a discussion or two about the number of capable technicians never mind qualified or certified. It seems as of late as my service department is going through it's 9th management change in 6 years we are for the first time in a while looking to grow a little. Unfortunately we have suffered some losses where techs are concerned. Finding replacements is beginning to look impossible any more. THere are very few prospective young techs out there and even fewer that have waht it takes. Am I the only one seeing this?

[jw33]

Nope our dealership is in the same boat, can't find any techs at all, hell we don't even have any asset kids coming in anymore. There are a couple of us looking at leaving the dealership and the managers are really concerned because if we leave there is no one to replace us.

[JoeR]

There are lots of different points of view and opinions on this.  I'll give you mine.

I taught Automotive at a State College in NY for 6 years.  Before and after that, I worked for Snap-on as a diagnostic sales and training guy.  So I think I have a decent view of the kids coming in, and of the shops buying diagnostic equipment.

 

Incoming students have changed over the last 25 years.  Today you could hand a scanner to a kid that has never seen one before in his life.  He would be able to turn it on and navigate the software, with no instruction, within 15 minutes of touching it.  That same kid, however, couldn't put a headlight bulb in without being wet-nursed through every single step.  They are comfortable with electronics, and can't operate a screwdriver.  They are tough to coach without injuring their feelings.  

 

An awful lot of the good technicians don't stay in the business long.  Some of my best students left the industry to become prison guards, linemen, construction equipment operators and a long list of other jobs that have better benefits.  3 of my former students work for Snap-on as sales reps.  

 

As long as there are other jobs that require less skill and pay a lot more, we are going to have trouble keeping talent.  Flat rate pay, low warranty times, no overtime pay, weekend work, little or no retirement plans and little vacation time will drive talent out.

Nintendo and X-Box will continue to keep kids from going outside, which in turn keeps them from fixing their bicycles, minibikes, go-carts and eventually cars.  It's a lot tougher to learn how to turn a screwdriver when you're 18 than it is when you are 8.

 

We aren't the only industry with this problem.  I absolutely LOVED teaching college.  I had a knack for it, had a good team, and doubled the size of the program.  I left because of the terribly low pay.  Many other teachers do the same thing.  

 

The bottom line is economic, as always. Want to attract and keep talent?  Make it worth their while.

 

Joe

[Keith Browning]

Wow Joe, that was an insightful look at it and from a different perspective than most here have. I hope Brad has something to add now that he is teaching as well.

[Matt Saunoras]

That is valid point for sure.  I can go nearly anywhere else for the same money I am making now.  You would think though as valuable as I am to my particular dealer they would realize this and be proactive about it.  They are not though, they only care about right now, one month to the next.  I have been the longest standing member in service for a little while now and the information I have should be seen as irreplaceable.   

 

They are going to lose me in a few weeks if all works out well.  I am being pursued for a municipal fleet position that's literally 5 minutes from my house.  I still get my 40 hours but I am only going to be at work for 40 hours.  Not 50+ hours getting paid for 40.  It is union too.

[forddieseldoctor]

We've been looking for a lube tech and possibly a b or c grade tech for over a year. They had one guy on the line who had either all or most of his Ford certs and they didn't wanna pay him what he wanted. Even the wash rack by us is a sad story, they can't even find kids to work there.

[JoeR]

Wow Joe, that was an insightful look at it and from a different perspective than most here have. I hope Brad has something to add now that he is teaching as well.

 

Thanks Keith.  I used to work as a Tech too.  I started as a dealership tech (mostly GM stuff), and spent some time in independent shops too.  The problem is certainly not isolated to dealers.  It exists in independent and fleet shops too.  My buddy runs a high end shop in NY ( www.cantechautomotive.com ) .  Try finding guys that are qualified to work on Ferraris and Porsches!  

 

I used to teach with a guy that instructed since the 60s.  He was a pretty quiet guy, but spoke up one day when we were having the exact same conversation at lunch.  Fran said "The difference in students today is that they need step by step instructions on everything."   He said years ago a truck could come to the shop to deliver an engine.  You could tell 2 kids "Get that engine off the truck for me, please."  They would:

Go find the fork lift.

Grab the engine off the truck.

Uncrate it.

Unwrap it.

Find the cherry picker.

Find a chain.

Find the right bolts to mount it.

Hoist it and,

Put it on a stand.

 

Today, you'd have to tell them every single step, and they'd stand around doing nothing until you instructed them on the next step.  

 

Of course, any time you make general statement like this, you are making errors.  There are a lot of good kids around, and some with excellent talent.  I have a shop at my house, and I've worked with 2 youngsters over the years.  Both of them were very talented. Both of them went on to become techs, even though that wasn't my intention.  

 

If you think things are bad in the dealers, you'd be shocked at what it looks like in the heavy duty fleet shops.  I couldn't begin to tell you what is there without you thinking I was making it all up.

 

Joe

[JoeR]

That is valid point for sure.  I can go nearly anywhere else for the same money I am making now.  You would think though as valuable as I am to my particular dealer they would realize this and be proactive about it.  They are not though, they only care about right now, one month to the next.  I have been the longest standing member in service for a little while now and the information I have should be seen as irreplaceable.   

 

They are going to lose me in a few weeks if all works out well.  I am being pursued for a municipal fleet position that's literally 5 minutes from my house.  I still get my 40 hours but I am only going to be at work for 40 hours.  Not 50+ hours getting paid for 40.  It is union too.

 

Thanks for this, Matt.  This is EXACTLY half of the problem.  Good guys go someplace else, forced there by economics and self preservation.  Making retirement plans is not a luxury any more.  If you don't have a plan, you're going to have a tough time of things when you retire.

 

Joe

[forddieseldoctor]

I was thinking about this while I was mowing my lawn this morning.

 

The automotive industry isn't the only skilled trade that is hurting bad for individuals willing to work in them. I think a part of this is coming from what's being preached at kids from grade school. The teachers and guidance consolers are telling these kids from early on that the only way to be successful is by going to college.

 

When I was in high school I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do until the second half of my senior year. My parents made me take the ACT test. I scored high enough on it on the first time that the guidence counsler pushed hard for me to go to college.

[Matt Saunoras]

I went to community college for 2 years before I decided I'd like to try the automotive program.  Before that I was running around the city trying to take prerequisite courses to get into an engineering school.  Once I hit the higher end math programs like calculus I knew I couldn't hack it anymore. What I found out was hands on work is what I needed.  

 

I was never once offered a choice in high school to go to vocational tech or anything like that, it simply wasn't an option for a mild of the class guy like me.  I was pushed towards college like everyone else.  Those programs were offered to the guys who couldn't handle regular classes.  Just by some chance I started liking cars and interest grew in repairing my own car.

 

Right now I feel like my potential isn't being reached here anymore and I've scoped other dealers out in the area and they don't seem much better.  Just like when I was in college I don't know what's right for me and it's time to try something new. 

[RyanG]

Most of the dealerships and Ford have no one else to blame but themselves. Same thing here, only reason I stay is because I know if I go to any other dealer in the area its going to be the same shit. Have had an offer to go work for the county with better benefits but the cannot match the pay I'm currently getting. Look at the message boards on PTS, Ford just released a video explaining the cut in labor times for recalls. Its going on all across the country. Another dealer close to mine has had to completely turn away diesel work due to there only guy quitting.

[Keith Browning]

Mike Rowe, who's opinion on this which seems to be based on real life experience and talking with thousands of people in all walks of life, has also made the same observations about the lack of vocational training and the push to go to college. When I think of all the things I was exposed to in school as a child:

 

Home Economics: I learned how to cook, sew, plan a budget and find simple solutions to every day problems with only the resources available.

 

Wood Shop: Working with hand tools, power tools, planning a project and drawing plans and actually made things

 

Metal Shop: Learned about different metals, the basics of using hand tools, machining, welding and actually made things.

 

Small Engines: perhaps where my love for machines was sparked. At the age of 10 I was already tinkering with mowers and small engines. LOVED IT!

 

Auto Class:  Speaks for itself but I leaned so much! This high school program provided such a solid knowledge base I don't know if I would be where I am today if it was not available to me.

 

Diesel Mechanics one: A vocational school program that propelled me into the industry in my senior year.

 

Now, in all of these experiences I learned a bunch of life lessons as well. Respect for myself and others, safety safety safety, critical thinking, creativity, feeding and clothing myself, a sense of pride and the ability to make mistakes and learn from them... I am sure there is a lot more but my lunch time is over and I need to get back to work. Responsibility!

[Brad Clayton]

It sure doesn't help that Ford has lost their everflippin' mind,,,,,,anybody seen the buzz on the message boards about all the new labor cuts and labor justification video?

[jw33]

The labor justification video really got my blood boiling, i would love to kick that stupid fucker right in the balls

[forddieseldoctor]

The labor justification video really got my blood boiling, i would love to kick that stupid fucker right in the balls

 

Oh but it's supposed to help free up time for more retail work in your shop.

 

It's still gonna take you the same amount of time to do the repair. Now it just pays less. And saves Ford millions of dollars.

[DieselD]

 

Wow Joe, that was an insightful look at it and from a different perspective than most here have. I hope Brad has something to add now that he is teaching as well.

 

Thanks Keith.  I used to work as a Tech too.  I started as a dealership tech (mostly GM stuff), and spent some time in independent shops too.  The problem is certainly not isolated to dealers.  It exists in independent and fleet shops too.  My buddy runs a high end shop in NY ( www.cantechautomotive.com ) .  Try finding guys that are qualified to work on Ferraris and Porsches!  

 

I used to teach with a guy that instructed since the 60s.  He was a pretty quiet guy, but spoke up one day when we were having the exact same conversation at lunch.  Fran said "The difference in students today is that they need step by step instructions on everything."   He said years ago a truck could come to the shop to deliver an engine.  You could tell 2 kids "Get that engine off the truck for me, please."  They would:

Go find the fork lift.

Grab the engine off the truck.

Uncrate it.

Unwrap it.

Find the cherry picker.

Find a chain.

Find the right bolts to mount it.

Hoist it and,

Put it on a stand.

 

Today, you'd have to tell them every single step, and they'd stand around doing nothing until you instructed them on the next step.  

 

Of course, any time you make general statement like this, you are making errors.  There are a lot of good kids around, and some with excellent talent.  I have a shop at my house, and I've worked with 2 youngsters over the years.  Both of them were very talented. Both of them went on to become techs, even though that wasn't my intention.  

 

If you think things are bad in the dealers, you'd be shocked at what it looks like in the heavy duty fleet shops.  I couldn't begin to tell you what is there without you thinking I was making it all up.

 

Joe

 

 

Agreed! I have one of these very examples in my shop. 20yrs old and has a hard time finding lunch without instructions. He shows up on time and is reliable coming to work but thats about it. He will walk in the door, change out and sit in the shop until given instructions. He will not come to me and ask whats on the books for today, or take it upon himself to take out the trash or give a guy a hand thats already working right next to him. Once given instructions he will do pretty much whatever is asked but once thats done back to idle he goes. It took me a good part of a year to teach him to do oil changes and battery replacements on his own without instructing him every step of the way! Common sense skills do not apply with him and it seems alot of this generation is the same way. Then what makes it worse is they have the guts to ask for a raise because they think they are doing such a good job showing up to work everyday! I can teach them if they are willing and have some common sense mechanical skills but I fear thats a dyeing breed. 

 

Being in the fleet industry now we have the same issues as the dealers with finding good people. The lack of good talent out there is ridiculous! Most good techs I have known throughout my career have moved on to bigger and better things, either opening their own shop, working for an independent/fleet shop or ditching the industry all together. They get tired of being taken advantage off, not paid accordingly and zero options for advancement. Having turned a wrench for a living having to put up with the BS at a dealer I would like to think this gives us some advantage to our fleet shop. We make it a fun environment to work in, pay according to skill level and work ethic and recognize those that go above and beyond whats required. We want to hold on to those quality people since without them we can not function as a business.  

 

Being a father of a 2yr old son with another one on the way I hope to be able to teach them as much as my father did me. I wasn't one to be coddled while playing video games all day, He always encouraged getting out in the garage with him and working on whatever he was messing with. I was not taught to expect someone to hold my hand or show me how to do something without trying first, and never taught to expect to look for approval from anyone except myself. I was never pushed towards college from my parents but they did pay attention to my skill set and help with finding  a vocational avenue to get me started. If I had followed what high school told me I would not be where I am today. Again common sense goes along way. 

[Keith Browning]

It sure doesn't help that Ford has lost their everflippin' mind,,,,,,anybody seen the buzz on the message boards about all the new labor cuts and labor justification video?

 

But don't worry, EFC05852 2017 Recall Incentive Program will make it all better! (see attachment) EFC05852.pdf

 

Can we refuse to perform recalls? I mean it's not like we are under contract to work on their vehicles are we?

[DieselD]

 

It sure doesn't help that Ford has lost their everflippin' mind,,,,,,anybody seen the buzz on the message boards about all the new labor cuts and labor justification video?

 

But don't worry, EFC05852 2017 Recall Incentive Program will make it all better! (see attachment) EFC05852.pdf

 

Can we refuse to perform recalls? I mean it's not like we are under contract to work on their vehicles are we?

 

Things like this make me very happy I do not work for a dealer any longer! Between fomoco and the dealership they are going to run any and all smart techs right out the door! 

[jimmy57]

They need to hire someone from the aftermarket chemicals business to come up with a REAL retention/appreciation program

. Turn in chassis hole plugs for $1 apiece from recalled vehicles or send a selfie with a master cylinder harness with the door mfg label with VIN to get your dollar. Tech with the most gets a 2018 Mustang GT. Techs with poorest response gets 25 Windstar rusted axle recalls to perform.

[Keith Browning]

Cross-posting from the FOR message board in case it gets edited or deleted:

First, I am of the opinion that unions have long lost their place in the work force. Once upon a time they were necessary but no longer and unfortunately cause more problems then they solve. Second, WE DON"T WORK FOR FORD MOTOR COMPANY and therefore a labor union would have no affect on them from your position at your pivately owned and operated dealership. Your pay is based on your pay plan that you agreed upon with your employer. With that said, all union arguments are moot where this subject is concerned. What can you do? Well, you could refuse to perform the recall or any job that you do not agree with for whatever reason, compensation is but one such reason. That would probably not get Ford's attention unless every technician refused to perform warranty paid repairs. Good luck there. What will likely be the result of this reduction in time is hurried and careless repairs, reduced customer satisfaction and continued strife between FO MO CO and the very people they need to support thier product. I have been witnessing this dissent for three decades now and nothing has changed and I doubt it ever will.

 

 

Stirring the pot s'more:

 

How much do you want to bet that the engineers or the assembly workers that screwed up these vehicles to begin with aren't suffering a pay reduction? Chew on that for a while.

 

I wonder what Grampy Jim would have said... then again wasn't he banned from the message boards? LOL! 

[mchan68]

So much for freedom of speech.....

 

I wasn't even aware of that video until someone mentioned it in this thread. I watched it. My opinion on it? Well, what is the point to expressing it? If I post on our message board, one or two things will happen. Either it will be deleted, and/or our DSM will be calling me into the SM's office for a closed door "strong arming" conversation about terminating my employment and possibly banning me from ever setting foot into another dealer.

 

I see a mass Exodus coming....

[Brad Clayton]

There is a dark cloud forming.

[Matt Saunoras]

I was offered the municipal job today and I gladly accepted.  Tomorrow should be fun. 

[Alex Bruene]

I don't really know how to react to these changes.  First off, I don't work on cars, so I don't do any latch recalls.  Secondly, at my dealership, most of the tedious recalls are done by apprentices, and flat rate techs only get to do them if we have no other work and want to tackle them, which is very rare as to how insanely busy we are...  That way, we can have the seasoned techs doing actual repairs and diagnosis.  And, third, my dealer takes care of us.  Nobody here will lose money on a job unless they blatantly fuck something up.  But, if these changes and procedures start to majorly effect SLTS in a negative way, then perhaps I'd be a bit more upset about it.   

[Brad Clayton]

Keeping an eye on this over on the boards:

 

Karim Miller

Classic Ford Lincoln of Columb

Columbia, SC

(803) 779-5977 Theres a sign in front of the dodge dealership across the street from this ford dealer. It has been there for no less than six months. (It reads) Wanted Techs of all skill levels. I asked the service manager why the sign was there? (by the way the dealer is one of the longest standing dealers in my area) His responce was all his techs quit because they could not make a living on doing nothing but recalls. Now being sceptical I investigated deeper. talking with one of the former techs found it to be true.

 

A few yrs. ago ford posed the uestion? WHY CAN"T WE GET MORE TECHS IN THIS BUSSINESS. Well look around FORD!!! I spend more time than ever now working on recalls than on customer pay jobs.I have gone from making 6 figure income to making almost half what it was 5 yrs ago! wake up and smell what your shoveling. Just on the door latch recall alone. Cut over an hour off the time. now lets say there is 1 million techs in the united states. and each one just lost an hour off each recall. thats i million hrs. per day taht ford is saving. now all the techs are complaining. So You come up with a incentive program to give 100 techs a $150.00 gift card a week out of 1 million techs. Thats $10,000 a week you give to 100 techs, but millions a week you save on recalls that you sent out with the labor times you came up with in the first place. We as master techs have to find a way to beat the times you come up with to make a living in the first place. and when we do, you come along with a video to constitute cutting time. this is a reminder of the EDSR days. paying techs $50.00 for showing you a faster way so you can cut our own throtes. How about this for a thought. You give all the techs in all the dealerships ford benefits, family insurance, paid vacations, UWA pay scale, and no weekends worked. try that on for size and ill work on anything you want me to. because at the level the dealers are giving us we can no longer afford to fix cars and jump through your HOOPS to DO OUR JOBS.