Torqued_Up Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Anybody care to wager when mods and hacks are going to start showing up for the new 6.4 engine? I can't wait to see what they are going to try and do with this engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 You haven't been sandbagging on TDS, have you? Nobodies had one of these yet but the number of stupid questions grows daily..... Tinkering with the 6.0 could be bad enough.... foolin' with this new engine might have us telling tuner dudes to FOAD.... My wife can drive a truck with all the pollution controls hooked up and working, I don't see why those "manly men" can't.... (sung to the tune of anything by the Village Fa..... People). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Jim, I poked into a couple of the 6.4 mods threads over there just for "sport" as you would put it. Now I am not anti-mod but I do apply the rules as necessary when it comes to warranty and doing what is right. That said, my only real objection to the subject is the attitude some guys have about tree huggers and the EPA and poor me...etc... etc...etc. Just a bunch of idiots trying to long-!@#!?$! each other and anyone trying to interject a little accurate information and common sense. You have to admit, it's quite entertaining. As for when the mods are coming? I think they need to get their hands on a truck before they can do anything really. I do hope that Ford did put some kind of tampering detection in the ECM. I am tired of that uneasy feeling and not knowing the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blown99 Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 You have to love how they know everything when typing on the message boards and will tell other people how to fix their trucks when they have never turned a wrench for a living. If they know how to repair their own truck then they can mod it. If you don't know how to fix it don't touch anything. Use the ford motorsport cataloge for mods and have the dealer put them on, this way the techs will know what they are looking at and working with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Mark, it's not hard to see how much most of these guys know... One of the big problems is that <A:> It makes sense to them and <B:> For some reason it makes sense to others that are at the same experience level.... And don't you dare start clouding the issue with FACTS.... And that friggin' EPA... who are they to tell me I can't help kill my planet.... They're just in cahoots with Ford and oil companies, anyway. I'd like to write more but I have to go clean my hand guns.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Sadly enough, the aftermarket gets these vehicle sbefore we ever even get trained on them. I know for a fact that one particular company already has a complete exhaust system for it, straight-thru. The DOC and DPF are eliminated, and an accompanying flash-tune is required that eliminates DPF regeneration from the strategy and performs the usual changes to fuel volume/timing as well as boost pressures and so on... Apparently, with the straight-thru exhaust and no other tuning besides the DPF strategy removed, mileage was increased DRAMATICALLY simply because you're no longer firing on the exhaust stroke. One nice thing about thiese piezo-style squirters is that firing on the exhaust stroke is still possible, and is VERY helpful in a "high-performance" application. Now, at WOT, because extra fuel has been fired right into the exhaust, the fuel now burns in the manifolds, greatly increasing the amount of heat and pressure before the turbo's inpeller and aiding in a much faster spool-up. Obviously VGT strategy has to be modified to take full advantage of this but still... ...these trucks are going to be monsters. As for "ECM mod detection" - nope. Apparently there is absolutely no access we will have to programming history on these at a dealer level. The statement in the 6.4 owners manual & DVD is basically untrue. Unfortunately, it's as simple as that. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 The statement in the 6.4 owners manual & DVD is basically untrue. Unfortunately, it's as simple as that. I was told it IS true! But you are correct about it not being retrievable at the dealer level. Then again, just how much do you think "they" are going to tell us? Too bad. It would be nice to know though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Well, that's kind of what I meant by untrue - the DVD states that your dealership can retrieve the info. Which we can't, which totally bites. I find it humorous that there is so much stuff Ford DOESN'T want us to have access too. Certain things are understandable, but by the same token, some things can be awfully impeding at the same time. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Maybe there will be a jolly red indicator that lights up on the IDS screen telling us to call the Hot Line and upload something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 HAhaha "Danger Will Robinson" kind of thing. Or it'll be the jolly glowing-red DPF under the truck telling us that they've done something they shouldn't have. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Thinking about the statement that the "dealer can retrieve the info....". Reading it just the way it states.... we can retrieve the info..... Nowhere does it say that we can "see" the info - We can't "see" electricity, but it is there.... If we are asked to upload a recording to hotline, there will be other information tagging along with the PID readings - a brief description of the truck (possibly even the VIN) as well as (quite possibly) info gathered in the network test and, with this new protocol, perhaps even some "log" files.... Log files that we retrieved, but can't see... As one hotline engineer stated - if we could see it, we could figure out how to change it... and that wouldn't be too good.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldoc Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Well I just got my new diesel power magazine the other day and was reading through and saw an ad for elite diesel stating they had 6.4 tunes coming soon. As exensive as the engines are and how expensive is to fix why would you want to take any chance with losing your warranty. Besides that I can have more fun playing with my old idi anyway. But different strokes for different folks I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hey, does anybody know if I can remove the EGR valve and replace it with a dummy one so that I can improve performance? Oh yes, my favorite from the old 6.0L PSD site. I spoke with an engineer at Banks not long ago and he sounded like a proud papa talkin' about their upcoming package. I have conveyed to the general manager and the service manager that I will not tolerate modded 6.4s and will not work on them. SIMPLE AS THAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hey, does anybody know if I can remove the EGR valve and replace it with a dummy one so that I can improve performance?Oh yes, my favorite from the old 6.0L PSD site.I spoke with an engineer at Banks not long ago and he sounded like a proud papa talkin' about their upcoming package.I have conveyed to the general manager and the service manager that I will not tolerate modded 6.4s and will not work on them.SIMPLE AS THAT! For the guys that scream that isn't fair, as they OWN the truck, I would disagree. They bought the truck but Ford is paying for any repairs to the engine for 5 years and 100K.You play you pay!!! :hammer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 "Damn tree huggers and warranty Nazis!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Maybe there will be a jolly red indicator that lights up on the IDS screen telling us to call the Hot Line and upload something. I am suprised that Ford doesnt want this done.CAT requires ECM downloads with every warranty repair other than a re-flash.Cummins is even worse in that you have to call them first,open a case file before repairing anything.Then Most times they make you follow a 10 page troubleshooting chart first for the component in question when you already know what the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003EDGE Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I build performance diesel engines on the side and I would love to see what is coming up for the new engines. I have built an engine for a local customer for his 06 6.0 He isn't worried about warranty as I built the engine with strength and reliability in mind. Oring'd block and heads, fire rings, hypermax valvetrain, new turbo, a whole host of gauges and all the trimmings usually associated with a high performance engine. He won't take the truck to the dealer as he doesn't like being without his truck for weeks on end waiting on repairs. I don't want to step on any toes here, just relaying his feelings. He took the truck in for a no start issue and the truck was there for over a week to get the stc joint fixed. Even then, they didn't install the bracket kit and it blew apart again which in turn is why the truck ended up in my hands. I have added alot of horsepower to his engine and improved his fuel mileage and increased the reliability. He has put over 30K miles on the new engine setup and it hasn't so much as hiccuped. To answer your question as to why people mod their diesel, because they want to and want more power and fuel efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Basically There is not alot you are going to be able to do and Keep the Re-gen and sensors happy.I am not against anybody modding their tk.But I feel with this one your warranty will be scratched out right away when you start disableing any of the Emmisions systems.As far as Us reading ALL of the ECM parameters at a Dealer level.I have been told before that there is code in banks you cannot View or retrieve and requires special password protected software to acess.What it is or how true this is I dont know.This was strait from a CAT engineer.So I assume they all may have a hidden room in thier somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Some time ago I was diagnosing a recurring ETC concern that wouldn't give us any identifiable concerns.... Hotline engineer had me enter an area in the IDS that I'd never felt the need to use and enter what appeared to be a memory address (to my limited geekness)... Several lines of data appeared on the screen and, after a very few questions, I was told there was an internal PCM hardware concern. I was advised to replace the PCM and avoid doing a PMI... I have no doubts that there is stuff in there that we will never know... stuff that, at our level in the food chain, we don't need to know in the grand scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I am just curious, how do you get more power AND better fuel economy? The two concepts inherently oppose each other, no? I realize that many tuners and programmers offer a choice of either or a selector "switch" of some type, but it does seem like a paradox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Keith the way it was descibed to me was that when they build more hp into a engine. The engine doesn't work as hard at a cruising speed which in turn is more efficient and gets better mileage. Whether this is true or not I don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Not sure how it would work with a diesel (other than what is used in a regen) but way back in the early 70's we saw reduced tailpipe emissions and fuel consumption went into the toilet.... Lean idle mixtures, retarded timing and really crude EGR valve control all added up to lousy fuel mileage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 Help!!! Flashback, 318 lean burn Chrysler's what a nightmare!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Not sure how it would work with a diesel (other than what is used in a regen) but way back in the early 70's we saw reduced tailpipe emissions and fuel consumption went into the toilet.... Lean idle mixtures, retarded timing and really crude EGR valve control all added up to lousy fuel mileage... So what you are eluding to is that we can make an engine more "efficient" by extracting the most energy that we can use from the fuel? Therefore, if the engine is making more power, you don't have to give it as much fuel/throttle for a given load ...as long as we ignore what is coming out of the tailpipe. READ THIS excellent tid-bit of info on the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Pretty much, kieth... The Ottocycle motor is a heat engine. The more heat that we can produce in the combustion chamber, the more power we can make.... Through camshaft design, intake and exhaust design and other considerations, we can design for low fuel consumption in low to mid range rpms at the cost of high rpm power - or, we can design for max power output at the cost of midrange driveability. In either case, tailpipe emissions will suffer in some form. Since I've said all this, remember that my version of hotrodding is long overlap cams, Holley carbs with sewer pipes for venturis and the idea that there is no replacement for displacement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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