7.3 DIT Oil Pan Replacement.

DamageINC · February 17, 2007

Ok, so here in the midwest, we get *LOTS* of salt on the road in the winter. This has a tendency to corrode the hell out of the oil pans on the 7.3's.

As a shop rule, whenever replacing an oil pan on these, engine removal is *required* and we will noe perform the repair in-chassis as previous attempts have resulted in too many that came back leaking.

With that being said, we remove the engine from the truck, mount it on that big stand, and replace the oil pan that way. Problem is - under warranty, it doesn't pay hardly anything. And according to Ford, engine removal is the recommended procedure.

Warranty pays 7.7 hours to pull the engine, mount it on a stand, replace the rear main, and reinstall the engine, get everything set and have it running. Adding an oil pan is an additional .6 hours. You might get .5 for oil leak diag. So basically, you get 8.8 Hours to pull the engine, mount it, replace the rear main, and change the oil pan. Which is absolutely retarded.

Is anyone else out there getting hammered this badly with this labor op?? Any way you look at it, the truck will be taking up a rack in your shop for 2 days. The sealant has been recommended to let "sit overnight" with the engine upside-down and this necessitates the use of the rack for basically 2 days.

It's just really aggrivating to have 15-16 hours into a job, literally busting !@#!?$!, and get paid for half of it. Especially when I can write up a story (legit) and get paid well over 6 hours to replace a single injector on a 6.0. If I do one on each bank, I can get paid MORE than I do for the 7.3 oil pan. And it only takes a couple hours. I've been blasted twice with this, God knows my neighbor tech has been whacked over the head a few times too by it.

Local shops around us also won't do the repair "in chassis" and everyone charges roughly 20-22 hours for an F-superuty 7.3 oil pan @ customer pay.

Dave

Keith Browning · February 18, 2007

First, RUSTED OIL PANS ARE NOT WARRANTYABLE. It is documented somewhere... perhaps the TSB for oil pan corrosion which I don't have handy at the moment. Ford considers "rust" an environmental issue and not a defect in materials or workmanship. Technically, none of them should be covered under warranty... much to my dissatisfaction my dealer has gotten assistance from Ford for several customers. What burns my butt is most of those trucks were out of warranty to begin with, the customer did not buy the truck from us and have never been to our dealer before. Oh how that KILLS me! Manager says "we gotta try to win the guy over." /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smhair.gif BULLSHIT! We never hear from them again.

Quote:

Local shops around us also won't do the repair "in chassis" and everyone charges roughly 20-22 hours for an F-superuty 7.3 oil pan @ customer pay.

The hours are in line with what we charge and I agree that turning the engine upside down eliminates oil leaks caused by dripping oil during assembly though we have done a few while hanging on the hoist.

2003EDGE · February 18, 2007

I have seen a tech at my facility do the oil pan 3 times before they finally got it right. We don't have any 7.3's under warranty in our area unless they are reman's so we don't see them too often anymore. However, I have been so swamped with 6.0 work that I haven't been able to pay attention to them.

DamageINC · February 18, 2007

Our dealership understands that corrosion isn't really warrantied... but these people spend 40k +on a truck to work for them. The fact that they might have to shell out over 2 grand because their oil pan rotted out a couple years after they bought it (and none of the other ones do) is kind of BS if you ask me, so I understand why we choose to cover them. That's an expensive f'ing oil leak, and it's not exactly one you can just "live with" either.

Fortunately for me, the 7.3's warranty life is almost over by now and I really can't imagine having to deal too much more with this particular issue.

I'm primarily bringing this up because my service manager was interested to know just how many other dealerships do this repair the same way, and likewise get shafted the same way.

Dave

Bruce Amacker · February 18, 2007

First of all, charge what it's worth, 20-22 hrs is completely in line. We charge more than that, but usually there is other fun stuff to deal with during the R&R from salt rot. During classes I poll the techs, and have known a few techs to do the pan in-chassis, but only one who says he'd do the next one in-chassis.

Secondly, a couple of tips I have come across the hard way:

1. Pull the motor, and burp the old pan off before inverting the engine. Inverting the engine before burping the pan dumps crud where crud shouldn't be, which on a Generation 1 truck leads to crud in the HPOP blocking the edge filter. This restricts the oil dump passage to the timing cover, which causes a P1211, IPR of 4%, and ICP of 1500psi with the light on. Follow the PPT to replace the HPOP, but it's expensive and the customer is bitching. Disregard the PPT, removing the ferry plug and cleaning the crud from the edge filter fixed the problem. This shouldn't happen on a Gen 2 because of the screen in the HP reservoir.

2. Make sure you use the good OE gray silicone that's not outdated. I bought 3 short caulking gun tubes, used one for a PSD pan, and the sealer never set up and dried. It turns out there are expiration dates on 2 of these tubes (but not the one we used), and they were expired. This created a war between my Ford dealer and I that will not soon be forgotten. I did get paid for the labor in the long run, but it wasn't easy.

2B. Using the wrong silicone may disrupt the anti-foaming additives in the (new) oil, causing hyperactive ICP activity and stalling from aeration. Figuring out the new oil is bad (or why it's bad) isn't easy.

3. Smearing chassis grease on the bottom of a pan before it rots will keep you from experiencing this fun. You guys in the sun belt don't know what you're missing! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Have a great week!

DamageINC · February 19, 2007

Ford has recently released a new sealant/RTV compound that is supposedly even stronger than the International stuff. It comes in a small caulk-gun style canister, but we didn't have any caulk guns in the shop. I ended up using my ball-joint press, hehe. (Stuck the tip through the hole in the "c" clamp and threaded the rod into the back of the canister. Just used a socket & small ratchet to turn it)

But the expiration date on the stuff was in August of '08, so that was kinda encouraging. At least it's got a good shelf-life.

Dave

LARRY BRUDZYNSKI · February 19, 2007

Here at our shop every oil pan(7.3) thats replaced get's the TA.31 silicone, and a can of the PM.13.A high temp anti corrosion coating. So far we haven't had a 2nd pan rotting out but then again I imagine if a customer has to do it a 2nd time I would guess it's time for new truck.

Alex Bruene · February 20, 2007

I find it odd that there is a policy in place to not do oil pans in chassis. We do both F and E series pans in chassis with no repeat leak issues. We charge 15 hours retail for either.

snw blue by you · February 21, 2007

26 hrs with R&R, and it is customer pay.

while the motor is out it also gives you the chance to address

any additional issues, such as exhaust leaks, and top end oil and fuel leaks with minimal additional cost to the customer, which they are generally happy about.

mlee · February 21, 2007

the "ford won't pay for a rusty oil pan" theory is crap. it may take a phone call or two but they will pay. as far as the time to do the job goes, if it is an auto trans with no extra goodies hanging off the engine, pull the motor, reseal the pan then go for lunch. come back from lunch and install the motor, maybe take a quick coffee break, finish up and go home early. i believe i got paid arround the 9 hour mark(as previously mentioned) for the last one i did, which for a warranty time is fine with me. retail would be much better, but if it was my 4 or 5 year old truck with 100,000km and still under warranty i would want ford to pay.

Torqued_Up · May 18, 2007

Alex, I have a 2000 Super Duty coming in and I am considering doing the pan in chassis. Any truck with an rottedout oil pan usually is a rust bucket and the nuts and bolts on everything else usually rounds off or breaks so it might be good to try not disturbing anything if i can help it. Other than removing the turbo and fan shroud do you have any advice or pointers or is this a straight forward as it seems?

Alex Bruene · May 20, 2007

I don't remove the turbo. And just unbolt the fan shroud. Remove the oil filter, transmission, flywheel, starter and adaptor plate. Unbolt the engine mounts, and jack the back of the engine until the turbo just hits the firewall and undo and separate the pan and remove the pick-up tube from the front and pull the pan out. Clean everything well, use the proper 7.3 silicone and put it all back together (make sure the pick-up tube gasket is in place). I like to apply the silicone to the block rather than the pan, and I don't silicone the ends of the pan until I have the pan and pick-up tube in place, so I'm not picking it out of my arm hairs for the next few weeks. All in, it's less than 5 hours...

DieselD · May 21, 2007

on the note of the 7.3 warrenty not paying its to be expected. Ford pretty much knows all the short cuts and has knocked down the time. it will happen to the 6.0 as time goes by as well. we can get over 6hours for an injector now but Im not sure for how much longer. its about like the 30+hr headgasket jobs too. Even being legit and all the times will fall sooner or later. On the flip side they are offset by the next generation of vehicles too. you just have to figure out how to make money on them.

Tony302600 · May 22, 2007

6 hours for an injector? ive never gotten over 4 and ive tried everything and wrote it up to a T. 30 for headgaskets, we fought with our warranty company and one time one of techs only got 12, when we usually get 22? Am i missing something. I thought i knew how to make money on these things. LoL

Brad Clayton · May 22, 2007

if the 7.3 is still under warranty we write it up for a leak. we replace the oil pan gasket (sealer) under warrranty and the customer makes up the difference, usually 10 hours and the cost of the pan. all said and done just under 20 hours combined.

Torqued_Up · May 26, 2007

Thanx Alex, the truck has not shown up so I have no story to tell yet. It was supposed to be in this past week but never showed. I guess township trucks arent treaded with as much priority as personal trucks are. This is going to be an after warranty adjustment repair soo I could care less if it never shows. Wayyy out of warranty and rusted up nicely. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif