Turbo Diagnostics with Rack Position Sensor

[Bruce Amacker]

Has anybody done the new diag procedure using the rack sensor and VMM yet? I've seen the diag brochure on it at the training center (PN 540605, dated 12/06) but I don't think they've done the test yet because they're short handed and busy with the 6.4. It involves installing a rack sensor (418-626, TKIT 2007TV-F) in the top of the turbo where the rack plug is, hooking the IDS/VMM to it, and graphing out VGT command versus rack position. I tried to buy the brochure- what a joke- I spent an hour on the phone and neither Helm or FMC have a clue what it is. Each repeatedly told me to call the other. I did shoot pics of the brochure pages because the TC only had one.

 

Thanks!

[Jim Warman]

For Canada, Ford has been pretty tight lipped about the new tool. I read broadcast messages like it was a religion and I had never heard of the tool until our 6.4 instructor showed us.

 

In the first few minutes that I waS allowed to fondle this new article, I realized that the sensor is bulky enough that it may cause installation concerns (I hope I'm wrong).

 

At the same time, my diesel guys are good enough at PID data diagnostics that it doesn't take long (as long as the concern is present) to decide if we need to go after the turbo or not.

 

It's an interesting idea but I'm not going to rush out and buy one just yet.... I have a nagging suspicion that it might turn out to be another CMP sensor tester.... But that might be just me....

[HGM]

Hopefully you'll see more before too long.. It's in the works. Some dealers are actually using it now as part of a pilot program. The tool works really well, especially at finding intermitant sticktion of the turbo that would be tough without it.. All you have to do is install the sensor in the "pipe plug hole" on top of the turbo and push the button. It does the rest for you and gives you the results. More similar to the EGR test than the CMP test..I was impressed, as were the other guys that saw it..

[Jeff Clyde]

We received this tool package as part of the pilot program. I have only used it a couple of times; it worked ok, although I still prefer to monitor pids during the road test, and looking at recordings.

[DwayneGorniak]

I agree with you Jim. I can read these turbo's just like I can predict PMS for my wife. You just gotta get to know them and how tempermental they can be.HEE HEE.

[Keith Browning]

Bruce was kind enough to PDF-itize the booklet. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif

VERY interesting info.

 

Turbo Diag Booklet

 

 

I wonder what the tool costs and who is going to use it? At this point most techs either know how to diagnose a bad turbo or they don't. Could this possibly end up being another CMP tester? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rotz.gif At least THIS tool looks useful!

[HGM]

I think its a great tool... You guys know how a computer works. So, your more likely to understand the EBP and MAF readings when you do a turbo test without the "new tool".. The problem comes with the sad fact that there are alot of "techs"(mechanics, dime a dozen style, maybe helpers working under someone elses #) who dont understnd what these readings are telling them..This tool will take all the guesswork out of the equation... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

[Keith Browning]

Some of us think that this sensor would have been a wise thing to have on the turbo from day one. It's great that it is a tool but what if an upgrade kit was made to add the sensor permanently to the turbo and connect it to the EBP sensor connector with a jumper... complete the modification with a new calibration to read the sensor in place of the EBP... and use the inferred EBP strategy to calculate back pressure. I think a lot of people would "buy" it.

[Jim Warman]

A position sensor IS something that they should have included in production.... I believe the DuraMax has it. It certainly would take a lot of staring at graphs out of intermittent diagnosis.

 

FWIW, I never see anyone mentioning the magnet test, anymore...

[Keith Browning]

FWIW, I never see anyone mentioning the magnet test, anymore...

What do you expect, its a pain in the ass in chassis and My magnets aren't strong enough. I did it on the bench once before canning the turbo for rust just to see if it made a difference. It was easier to do and view but in all honesty, I felt like I was wasting my time. I am a graph reader like you and unless I can't get one to stick for me I know what to look for and I know what it feels like on the road. That may sound like a seat of the pants approach by my ass cheeks have logged many test miles! Same goes for EGR valves. I don't know about the rest of you but I like the new EGR / Air Management test on IDS. This Turbo test looks to be as useful except it requires spinning on a test sensor. Hope that turbo isn't too hot! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smhair.gif

[Jim Warman]

I still like testing the EGR the "old" way... We've had several that you "just know" are intermittent EGR faults but they pass the canned test sequence many, many times in a row.

 

I had one last week that I couldn't get the EOT over 80C... I was barely given enough time to do any comprehensive testing let alone change the thermostat, too.

 

This one, as it turned out, would have been easy to spot - it was siezed closed... couldn't even budge it with a screwdriver. Interesting thing (and I wish I had thought to save the recording) was that about a minute after cycling the EGR to 100%, EGRVP would come up about halfway and start doing the funky chicken.... really sharp swings about a half volt or so each side of mid-point.

 

FWIW, if I am trying to analyze data, I always record... the more, the better.... There's too much going on too really make a good decision without the time to study - and live data is too hard to study, sometimes.

[Keith Browning]

Quote:

June 29, 2007

To: Ford Dealership Principals and Service Department Personnel
Subject: Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) Based 6.0L Turbo & Control Valve Diagnostics

NEW IDS DIAGNOSTIC ROUTINE
A new Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) diagnostic routine has been developed for 6.0L Turbocharger and the Control Valve (VGT Solenoid). A pilot was conducted in January, 2007 with dealerships that have repaired a significant number of 6.0L turbos. The pilot Ford dealerships received free hardware and updated IDS software.

The new hardware, IDS software and diagnostic routine were successful in helping the diesel technician determine root cause more efficiently. Therefore, we are providing the software and hardware to perform this diagnostic routine to the remaining non-pilot Ford Dealerships.

REQUIRED ACTIONS
Please make sure that:

Your dealership's Service Manager is aware that this hardware will be arriving by July 16th.
This diagnostic routine is used by your certified diesel technicians whenever Turbochargers and Turbo Control Valves (VGT Solenoids) are diagnosed.
Labor operation 6005F38, which pays 0.6 hours, is used when claiming this repair.
HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE DELIVERY
Turbocharger and Control Valve Diagnostic hardware are being shipped as kit number TKIT-2007VP-F. The contents include:

Part Number Description
418-626 VMM Vane Position Sensor Cable Kit
418-626/1 Vane Position Sensor Clamp
418-626/2 Vane Position Sensor
418-626/3 VMM Vane Position Sensor Cable


These items will be shipped to the attention of the Service Manager. Shipping is expected to begin June 29th. Only one tool will be sent to each dealership P & A Code, regardless of the number of IDS units purchased. Additional quantities or replacements can be ordered by calling 1-800-ROTUNDA (768-8632) and choosing option #5 when prompted.

The software will be available through the normal IDS software releases beginning with IDS release B49.6, released June 1, 2007.

QUESTIONS

For any questions regarding tool shipments please contact Bill Caines bcaines@ford.com (313)-845-8886 or Dan Wood dwood10@ford.com (313)-322-4501.
For technical concerns when using the hardware and software, call the Technical Information Support group at the Technical Hotline 1-800-826-4694 Menu Option #1.

And a picture of the test sensor and cable Bruce kindly posted a few months ago.

[Bruce Amacker]

I still think they should hard wire that bitch in and eliminate the EBP. Reflash it, and you're good to go with a positive feedback on the VGT position like Garrett intended and Duramax uses.

 

*sigh*

[Keith Browning]

Well it just arrived at my dealer. All I need now is a victim and a chance to give it a go!

[Brad Clayton]

Keith, I have used it a couple of times and it is pretty quick and painless. By the time your ready to use the tool the turbo is pretty warm so it makes you work quick. The ids graphs are like doing a cop stress test, it's either good or bad.

[Tony302600]

Bruce, i think you should be a hand model. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif