matthew Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 removed engine to replace head gaskets and coolers reinstalled low icp only when hot.360psi right away air tested no leaks heard tried known good ipr same thing.replaced hhp and same thing i give up removed valve covers and removed injectors, drings look ok and oil rail and stand pipes ok dummy plugs on rails ok help please eating my lunch could it be the brach tube im lost at the moment....thanx matt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErickBaker Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 What year model van is this? Does it have the STC fitting on the HPOP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 Matt, I don't know what your experience level is but there are a few of us that have had some tough ones that kept us hunting and digging. The unfortunate thing is that you have had this engine apart already and put it together only to have gotten nowhere. I feel your pain but I never had this happen to me with an E-series. The tough part is it sounds like you created this concern or disturbed something that was already on it's way out. The two real tough ones I fought with had deteriorated o-rings in the oil rail supply tubes and the block off tubes. I think many techs overlook these seals including the drain plugs and end caps. I know I used to. If you have the rails out, remove the plugs, clean the seals and inspect them closely. It does not take much deterioration to cause a pressure loss. The lesson here is don't just look for the obvious. If it's apart, take advantage of the access to related components even if it means just a few minutes extra time. The small investment in time is worth preventing the big loss in time having to take it all apart again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHNO60 Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 I HAD A 2004 F450 DO THAT EXACT SAME CONCERN. COOLED AND IT RAN NO PROBLEM.WE HAD A CRACK ON THE BRANCH TUBE RIGHT AT THE SOLDIER JOINT THEY MADE ON THE HPP SIDE OF THE TUBE./forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/boink3.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 6, 2007 Share Posted April 6, 2007 In additon to what Kieth has mentioned, we should look closely at what we have disturbed in our repairs.... My experience has shown that anything that can build 300+ PSI warm, is going to be difficult to see.... something as simple as installing an oil rail cocked can mark an injector ring bad enough to cause this. Think back over the repair and see if there was anything that gave you trouble..... A couple of things I have learned.... when checking for high pressure oil leaks - temperature matters.... get this thing cooking hot before testing if you can. 120 PSI of shop air ain't nothing compared to 500+ PSI of oil pressure... sometimes testing can get messy (that's what the wash bay is for).... There's been a few occasions where I have disabled the FICM and had an assistant crank the engine while I look for oil leaks - extremely difficult if you have the "wave" rail.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott B Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I HAD A 2004 F450 DO THAT EXACT SAME CONCERN. COOLED AND IT RAN NO PROBLEM.WE HAD A CRACK ON THE BRANCH TUBE RIGHT AT THE SOLDIER JOINT THEY MADE ON THE HPP SIDE OF THE TUBE./forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/boink3.gif This is Fairly common In Internationals.So Far I have done 8 branch tubes In them.04's & 05's.Any time I do a STC that has Blown apart and I have to bend the branch back down.I always throw the Air to it before putting the cover on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Additional tips: Apply shop air for at least 30 minutes- if the oil is cold, it may take this long to push the oil out to hear a small air leak. Plug the block heater in to help thin the oil out. Use a stethoscope to listen! Many air leaks will be too small to hear normally. Taking a regular stethoscope and attaching a piece of vacuum hose to the end of it where the probe usually is will help identify the source of leaks. If one is really giving you fits, we have talked about using high pressure Nitrogen or CO2 to pressurize the system. As Jim stated, shop air is a weak test pressure. If you do use high pressure, take special safety precautions. Most of all, Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted April 8, 2007 Author Share Posted April 8, 2007 ok found it i rigged up the porter power you use for 7.3 ipr testing.screwed a guage into icp on right valve cover and hooked porter to test port in hhp cover earlier model 04.full fielded ipr with jump box andf pumped high pressure oil system up to 2000psi found injectors leajin on right bank and 2 on left orings in injetors on top hard and letting oil leak past.....done this test with engine on stand.field rep name is russ hes awsome i told him what i found and he said hes seen this with higher milage trucks like this had 86,000miles and injector seals hard told to replace oil rails to.test i made works like a top to the first person that posted after me ive only been doing this about 10 years and been on diesels for about 5 years everyday....but hey you learn something new everyday right.....thanx for the input and it was something i disturbed the oil rails rep told me it wouldve been ok till i removed them.they are going to get me paid for all the work it wasnt something that i broke rather than something thats was already going out.take care guys talk at you soon!!!!!!!!!matt.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 ok found it i rigged up the porter power you use for 7.3 ipr testing. Congrats on your inventiveness in finding yet a new way to test a system we've dealt with for years. My question to the masses is whether direct powering an IPR will damage it or otherwise shorten it's life, as it's used to seeing a PWM signal. I can see this being useful information as some dealers have a really lopsided tech-to-scan-tool ratio. Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 My question to the masses is whether direct powering an IPR will damage it or otherwise shorten it's life, as it's used to seeing a PWM signal. One of the guys I work with ALWAYS uses the IPR test harness when he does his air tests, where I ALWAYS use IDS. We don't see any trend in IPR failures on his jobs compared to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 It really depends on how long power is supplied.. Those little wires in the solonoid dont like high current.. IDS is certainly the prefered method, but a jumper for a short period of time is acceptable.. Ever notice the IDS/WDS cuts off active cmd after about 5min? Good thing to keep in mind.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 We jump power to the ipr as well here. But you are correct. Don't leave power to the ipr for too long. The other diesel tech here left power on one for too long and burnt it out. It does work great though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Testing on an F650 or an LCF for hp oil leaks the PPT says to use the breakout harness from the kit and power it with 12v but it does offer this warning. Quote: "CAUTION: Do not leave the IPR valve energized longer than 120 seconds. This can damage the IPR valve." So either way is acceptable,I guess it's a matter of preference or ease of access to the IPR as you know it's real easy on a Econoline or LCF but on a F-350, not so much .. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Another thing that comes to mind, some guys are using a 9v battery as a power source. Just enough voltage and low current.. I still wouldnt leave it on for a long period of time, but it would simplify things some once you made the end to connect it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Part of the reason I encouraged this topic is that not everyone has OE scan tools. Ford has not released the CAN bidirectional code to ETI, so there are no aftermarket scan tools that have bidirectional controls on Ford CAN vehicles. This really limits what you can do on a 6.0 unless you have the OE tool. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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