More trouble programming - 85mph limiter?

GregH · April 17, 2007

I've got a customer's F-250 here that only goes 85 after the 07S49 program. I've verified that it has the correct calibration loaded in it (tear tag JFZ9) and the right PCM filename.

Customer states that it cut off at 100 before the new calibration was installed. Hotline hasn't got much info yet.

I'm about to go drive the other 3 stock units we have. But I updated them 2 weeks ago. If they go 85 also, then I may still have a problem - with 4 trucks instead of 1. If they go 100, then I only have 1 broken truck.

Anyone else been here?

DieselD · April 17, 2007

I dont think they where ever doing 100, I beleive it was 92mph. wierd that the programming changed it. I have never concern with it however I am programming mostly 450s-550s.

GregH · April 17, 2007

Just got back from a test drive. 2 of our stock units - the two I programmed - go 85. The other one with the factory program goes 95...

uhh ohhh...

DieselD · April 17, 2007

well thats just cute, now we will be doing another program to correct the speed limiter. nice. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hitthefan.gif

Keith Browning · April 17, 2007

Who is driving these trucks that fast? Bonnie and Clyde?

Keith Browning · April 17, 2007

Who is driving these trucks that fast? Bonnie and Clyde?

DieselD · April 18, 2007

Who is driving these trucks that fast? Bonnie and Clyde?

dont you know they are race trucks keith? Around here the average speed limit is 85 it seems

GregH · April 18, 2007

I agree that 85 is too fast in a truck this size. I'm also surprised that it only took the customer 48 hours to realize that the speed limiter had been lowered. I feel safer going to and from work now...

Anyway, yesterday evening the hotline had me identify the vehicle again, save the session, and then upload the session to them. I was then instructed to remove the IDS software from the laptop and reload it from scratch. I'll try to blank path program the truck again this morning with a fresh IDS program. We'll see how that goes.

I would like to think that this was an IDS problem. But with the checksums that are in place - safeguards to prevent incorrect calibrations - I highly doubt that the IDS happened to choose an incorrect calibration, name it correctly, load it into the truck, and the truck took it.

I think that the problem is on Ford's end. I think someone messed up making these calibrations and got the 450-550 cal reversed with the 250-350 cal. Either that, or the 250-550 cal is the same actual program - accidentally copying over the 250-350 cal.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in a little research, check your flashed 250-350 trucks and see if the PCM filename ends with "CJK." You'll find it in the session log, middle button on the bottom of the vehicle ID screen. You'll have to scroll up a little to find it. If you wish to go a step furthur, and can do it reasonably safely, see if your flashed 250-350's will exceed 85 mph.

I'd hate to think this was a widespead problem. I hope it is localized to our dealership, or at least just the Memphis area.

By the way, thanks for the input, guys.

Diesel Jay · April 18, 2007

Maybe I'm missing something, but what legitimate gripe does an owner have if the speed limiter was dropped from 90+ to 85mph? Both exceed the speed limit in every state except some of the rural western areas. Basically, on what grounds is the customer going to complain, that Ford doesn't let them break the law by a large enough margin? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

- Jay

Keith Browning · April 18, 2007

Jay I don't think you are missing anything but many owners feel as though it is their truck and they should be able to go as fast as they wish. After all, there are plenty of vehicles on the road that well exceed 100 MPH. I'll drop the morality argument as that really doesn't count for anything anymore and who gives a crap what I think anyway? You have read thousands of post over on your site about Ford changing something on their trucks without their permission or taking something from them that they paid for. Okay, I might go along with that but it is getting old. I wish Ford would pay attention to what it is doing with these limits and the changes that are occurring. I am curious as to if this speed limit with the new calibration is real and if it was intentional or some kind of oversight. In either event, I wish they would also decide on, and publish maximum vehicle speed ratings/specifications for every model by engine & drive line options and be done with this! Then we can firmly say "it is what it is."

GregH · April 18, 2007

Ford agrees that there is a problem with my vehicles. In fact, since I called the other day, 4 other technicians called with the same concern from other parts of the country. So, the problem may be widespread.

An engineer will be here in the next few days to look at it with me. I'll keep you guys posted.

In reference to the speed limiters and Ford documentation, SSM #19633 states the speed limiters for 250/350 and 450/550... Of course this doesn't address any other vehicle lines...

Diesel Jay · April 19, 2007

Quote:

I wish Ford would pay attention to what it is doing with these limits and the changes that are occurring. I am curious as to if this speed limit with the new calibration is real and if it was intentional or some kind of oversight.

I suspect that mixups of this nature are going to get worse, not better. Ford & Nav engineers are no longer allowed to speak directly with each other, and all phone calls between the two companies are now recorded. The relationship is in uncharted waters.

In spite of this, Ford has approached Nav about the contract for '10 [even though the current one runs to '12]. I don't have the details, but the rumor is that Ford has realized that producing 250-300K engines a year is hard to do, and few mfg'ers can accomodate that kind of capacity. Ford is dead set on designing their own engine, but the idea is that they may subcontract out the production to Nav so that Nav would be producing a Ford-designed engine. We'll see.

How's the saying go, "may you live in interesting times?"

- Jay

Jim Warman · April 20, 2007

Jay... I believe that that is a Chinese curse....

GregH · April 20, 2007

Just got off the phone with the field service engineer. He told me to blank path program the PCM with the latest and greatest (48.9P10) and let him know. No effect, of course.

He agreed that it was a calibration error on Ford's part. He'll get back to me on Monday. By the way, 10 technicians have called in about this same concern as of this morning...

CERTIFIEDFORDTEC · April 21, 2007

In December I left the dealership to go work as a mechanic at a city yard after 15 years. The last 6 years of which was pretty much working only on diesels. Now that I am out of the hussle and bussle of it all I find myself coming here to read what I have been missing for the last several months. I feel for you guys. When I left I had high hopes that the 6.4l was going to be much less problematic than the launch of the 6.0l. And it may be too early to tell but what I read here sounds discouraging at the least. Amonth or so ago our fleet bought an '08 f-550 with the 6.4l and it seems that the day it was delivered was the day that the flame thrower video was put up here. I couldnt help but think of a class of preschoolers on a field trip walking on the sidewalk when a 6.4l drives by. Its kinda scary! Since then our new bomb truck has gone thru what I suspect was a regen process and the heat coming from that tail pipe without flames is amazing. The next regen we are thinking of a having a shop barbeque! Anyhow I must be rambling here by now but as I am repairing a weedwacker instead of an e-350 I will think of all of you and hope for the best that the 6.4l will eventually be a blessing for and not the headache that the 6.0l was or is.

GregH · April 24, 2007

The field service engineer is forwarding me a website that has the original calibration file available for download. His instructions were to reflash the truck with the original program until the fix is available in about a month.

This raises a few questions, however. I'll be putting the original flash back into the truck - essentially undoing the safety recall that started this whole mess. Lovely. Second, about this "fix" that will be available - I am wondering if a recall will be issued to correct the programming installed in the first recall?

The engineer indicated that every single truck flashed during this time period has the 85 mph limit. That's quite a few trucks to go back and flash again...

I'm looking forward to perusing this website. Hopefully there will be other interesting things there...

I'll keep you posted...

GregH · May 2, 2007

Ok. The trucks are fixed. They all have more power, and 95mph top speed. 0-60 times dropped from 10.1 seconds to 8.9 seconds.

So what was the fix?

Short answer - I donno.

Long answer - I loaded "CJK" into the trucks again. Same thing I've been doing over and over per various engineer's requests.

Here's what I think happened - Big stink at Ford about possible calibration errors. Someone a few cubicles down the row overhears it, thinks "gee, that's a calibration I've been working on." Double checks a few things on his computer, finds an error, corrects it, and places the updated file on the corporate server - replacing the existing CJK calibration. Our IDS reloads CJK from the corporate server when I request a copy to flash into this truck. All of the sudden, the truck is now fixed. No accountability, no paper trail, nothing to keep Ford from saying "technician error" or "just one of those things."

So, I probably won't ever find out exactly what happened.

You know, if I made a mistake, that's fine. I would appreciate knowing what mistake I made to cause this issue, so it won't happen again. If Ford made the mistake, then tell me so that the story will have an ending. As is, my write-up for this repair won't look very good - verify concern, contact hotline, reflash truck, repeat as required to complete repair, 10 hour MT request.

Well, at least the customer is happy.

Back to my 6.0L head gasket job on an ambulance.

Alex Bruene · May 2, 2007

You know, if I made a mistake, that's fine. I would appreciate knowing what mistake I made to cause this issue, so it won't happen again. If Ford made the mistake, then tell me so that the story will have an ending.

If you make a mistake, it's a comeback, and you do it for nothing. If Ford makes a mistake, it's a recall, and you do if for next to nothing...