sondogg12 Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Do you have to detorqe cylinder heads before unbolting bedplate? Can the block crack if heads are not removed? if you have to remove heads i dont understand how warranty only pays 2.9hrs to do bedplate seals but a short block pays 8.5hrs.and you cant use both labor ops..Can someone make this clear for me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I have only done 2 bedplate jobs and I didn't take the heads off for either of them. Infact there are some that will do the bedplate seals without removing the engine. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I've never even heard of detorquing the heads for this..... and I'm pretty sure that Ford will tell you to replace the gaskets after something like that. We came a cross a broken rocker arm before they came up the the rocker arm tool - the tech that did the repair and hotline talked for a long time about detorquing even one headbolt to get the rocker arm support off.... It worked out OK in the end but it shows how anal we have to be about head gasket seal with this type of gasket... Kudos, however, for considering the ductility of the block when removing any fasteners.... Too many consider this large lump of cast iron to be immovable, impregnable and indestructible.... when, in truth, the internal dynamic forces must be whipping stuff into a frenzy.... just my opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Some years ago we ran into difficulty replacing a crankshaft in an E-150 with a 4.6L. We didn't detorque the heads, and sure enough we ran into problems later on. The engine never did generate suficient oil pressure and ended up being replaced. We called Ford on it since it didn't state to detorque heads before removing main bearing caps. Ford said nope - look at the engine disassembly section in the WSM. The heads are removed long before you get to the main caps. Anyway, that experience stuck with me. Since then, when it was practical, I've detorqued the heads before touching the mains, even on the non-modular engines. My first bedplate gasket got new head gaskets. You betcha that I detorqued the heads before touching the bedplate... Didn't want that one coming back on us, and the WSM has you remove the heads before working the bottom end - just like the modulars and most others. I stated the order of disassembly and assembly as written in the WSM, argued my case to the warranty administrator and service manager, citing the old E-150 that we ate. Guess what? I got paid for my time, and no questions asked from Ford... Since then, I've asked international and ford specifically about this, and they have both said detorquing is an unnecessary step. I've since stopped that proactice with no ill effects... Unnecessary? I can see that. But a good precaution against the unknown, especially when a mistake on this engine is so costly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 All the info I have seen says that you dont need to remove the heads before the bedplate on this engine. On some engines, its definitly needed though.. The main thing I would caution is that you use the cam alignment tool. It keeps the cam from turning the crank by valve spring pressure /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif.. This will surely happen without noticing it untill you try to start it.. I also strongly recomend against the guys on the other sites that are doing this in the truck.. Too many variables on a tempermental engine, like playing with hand grenades in my opinon.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Reminds me of the 7.3l oil pan replacement thread, to pull the motor or not. Alot of flat rate animals out there with quality pretty low on their list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 All the info I have seen says that you dont need to remove the heads before the bedplate on this engine. On some engines, its definitly needed though.. The main thing I would caution is that you use the cam alignment tool. It keeps the cam from turning the crank by valve spring pressure /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif.. This will surely happen without noticing it untill you try to start it.. I also strongly recomend against the guys on the other sites that are doing this in the truck.. Too many variables on a tempermental engine, like playing with hand grenades in my opinon.. I totally agree. I got the info to do it "in vehicle" , and decided it was probably not going to be worth it. Is there anyone here who has done it "in vehicle" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Reminds me of the 7.3l oil pan replacement thread, to pull the motor or not. Alot of flat rate animals out there with quality pretty low on their list. Not sure how you can make a living now without working like that? Actually I realized I couldn't make a living ANYWAY so I quit...Ford can kiss my ass. I know someone's going to say "money is a dealer issue" but if FORD would PAY the dealers the times it should for repairs, the dealer could afford to pay the techs appropriately. Zhit runs downhill...I know most dealer principals are crooks. That's HOW they became owners. Some may disagree with the "most" here, but that has been my experience in 35 + years of being in the business. Honest men have no business "in business" as it WILL turn you into a crook. Much like politics... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Lew.. I can understand your frustration. Part of the problem is a malaise that affects most dealerships. They develop an attitude that "we have them for the next three years".. totally ignoring the retail possibilities.... My guys suffer through the same poor SLTS that other techs experience but we have good "menu" times on retail stuff... We try to be fair to both customer and tech.... Our good techs get paid about 33% of the door rate with performance goodies figured in.... Now... is the concern DPs that don't care? Or department managers that have gone overboard in playing CYA?.. I'm "unique" at my dealership.... at various points, I piss everybody off.... I don't work for the service department, I barely work for the dealership.... I work for our customers and I make no excuses.... Disclaimer... there are times that you just can't please a customer.... you need to realize when these times are.... I carefully consider the guidelines that Ford has laid out, and I follow them but I also use "judgement" in applying them. I get caught short regularly.... My victories outweigh my failures... if I see I'm getting in over my head (as far as customer relations are concerned), I don't hesitate to involve the DP... I know my limits.... In this modern age, techs tend to forget that it is ALL about the customer... ME becomes too important and we lose sight of our purpose in life... No... we can't please everyone.... but it is important to know who we NEED to please, how we can reduce the displeaure of others and the importance of discovering those we may never please.... I try to shield my guys from any politics... they aren't here for that. It's complex.. and would take many volumes to detail.... I spent many years self-employed so I have a "leg up" on shmoozing... If you worked for the wrong boss... that's between you and he.... For my part... if my boss doesn't like "MY" way of doing things, he can get rid of me in a heartbeat. There's been a few times I nearly expected it. Sounds pretty "big", doesn't it????? If you know, in your heart, that you are right... there is no worry.... If you have confidence in your knowledge and abilities, there is another job begging us to fill it.... choose carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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