Jim Warman Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 In the past, both here and on another venue, I have posted long winded and harshly on tech wages, expectations and "willingness to provide....." (for want of a better term). My son, an only child spoiled rotten from day one, at the ripe old age of 19 has decided (finally) to make a detour in his career path... He was on his way to becoming a wireline technician (oil patch stuff) but hit a peed bump. His employer promised to keep him "busy"... which they did... But they kept him busy in the shop... and all that gets a man is his "gaurranty" with none of the "field" pay. Tough to make house payments and have a few bucks left over for a few Coronas and a lime.... So... the boy is heading out tomorrow to be a "rig pig"... A roughneck on a service rig - something like this . He starts at something like $24/hour.... the days are long and hard (like a lot of us don't know about that). Think about that $24/hour.... As professionals, any of us should be able to command at least that much... and more. What is the difference? "Rig pigs" are expected to be rig pigs.... We, on the other hand, need to act like trained, educated professionals.... Any time we see another tech putting on a "rig pig" act.... doing things that shouldn't be done... failing to perform adequate diagnosis... failing to verify the concern... failing to verify the repair... we become "rig pigs" ourselves. Most of us here seem to be happy with our lot in life (though Dwayne gave us a bit of a start)... and appear to have won respect and "position" in our chosen paths.... and, mostly, all we need to do is to do our jobs well... In my shop, I am often accused of trying to "assign blame" for things gone bad.... that might be the way I come across sometimes. As a fire department instructor, I learned a technique called "fail forward"... identify the problem... acknowledge the problem... fix the problem.... Most of the time, the "perp" doesn't even realize he's done something amiss.... Like a chef.... don't feed your customer something you wouldn't eat yourself.... Thank you for listening to me and Mr Seagram.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif On edit.... $24/hour.... that's $22.78 'Murican.... On another venue I see guys lusting for $17ish/hour.... In the 60s we took drugs to make the world look wierd.... now, we take drugs to make the world look "normal"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy_M Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 We have the same problem here. Oilfield is paying $21-25 on a service rig, and $25-30 on a drilling rig. While I was at the dealer, we lost at least three techs to the rigs because of the pay, of course I felt management did not pay fairly to many techs here. They had started some "techs" that you or I would classify as a "rig pig" at $13-15/hr, while we had some guys fresh out of college that could turn good hours, knew what they were doing, and could verify the problem and fix it right earning $10-12/hr. I was the third highest paid tech in the shop at $16/hr, while the other two were around $20-23/hr, and they had each been there for 12-15 years. Wages had been an issue I have brought up with several people in the chain of command, along with shop conditions, and nothing was ever addressed until after I left their employment. I have even been offered many times to work on the rigs, but it has never been a job that appealed to me, but I have since become self-employed and now work alongside maintaining several of the service and drilling rigs and equipment in the area. One of the biggest reasons I steered away from the rigs has always been the high chance of injury or death. There is just too much equipment that could fall at any time, and equipment that just has not been maintained and is a safety hazard. We just had an injury here about 3 days ago where a floor hand lost his fingers, then arm due to an accident with the tongs. I read their day in the life you posted, and I have been on these rigs with them, and there so called "day in the life" is a very glorified safety conscious speech that I do not really see on many rigs here. If your son decides that he likes the job as a "roughneck," I wish him the best of luck and tell him to be safe, and always be aware of your surroundings out there. Buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I dont talk about how much but, I make $20-$22 $3 extra cause im a diesel tech, extra $1.50 for booking over 44 so that comes to 26.50 and ive only been doing this 3 years, started out doing oil changes at $8 an hour first year. Raises are coming up, i asked for a substantle raise ( after i resealed a 3rd member in a F-550 and it almost fell because we dont have enough straps ). My manager told me that their are a handful of guys that shouldnt be getting paid the pay they get but he cant go backwards (previous service manager messed everything up). Now do I stay if I dont get what i want, or do i go to another dealership. I do this because I love it. I love the daily challenge but i want recognition for it sometimes. I set a goal to buy a house in 6 months and i dont think i could afford the mortgage at wut i am at now. I take this work home with me, i go the extra mile, get more pissed off then the customer if i cant verify the concern, i stay late when needed. I hate rambling, I hate sounding like " i should get this much bcuz, or they owe it to me" but sometimes reality sets in and u start thinking that way when you see hacks making a lot more then you, asking you questions, taking credit for it, then talking down on me bcuz im 23 after helping them. Oh well, thanks for letting me vent. If i leave the business it will be to take my dads company over, and be unhappy, but make a lot of money, or become a cop. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Tony if you want to make money being a cop is definitly not the job for you. I'd say that being in the business for only 3 years and making what you do is pretty decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 This is healthy... the disparate appearance of our wages is a noteworthy topic.... "Rig pigs" seem to earn pretty close to the same where-ever you go.... but some techs make 12/hour and others make 40/hr. For God's sake, don't view this as a call to unionize.... I sure wouldn't join... At the same time, I have to wonder what influences have caused this kind of galvanization in the trade regarding wages.... At the same time, and I am trying to tread very carefully here... we often see rewards for "certification" level but never for "experience" level. A couple of years ago, the tradesmans and qualifications branch caused us to lose a tech with more 7.3 knowledge and lore than many shops possess... this was a two way deal and I harbour no ill will to the tradesmans and qualifications branch for what happened... all the same, the tech that had to leave started with the IDI and grew from there... but refused to work towards journeyman status.... That kind of experience is damned near irreplaceable.,.. at the same time, we have a "fresh" journeyman that is earning senior tech wages.... he is young, impetuous, overlooks things, takes shortcuts that p*ss me off totally.... If we look back at some of my earlier threads... it is up to us to drag this trade into the realm of respectability.... it is then that we will earn the trust of our employers, our customers and achieve wage parity.... It is one thing to "feel" special.... but if we make sure we are, indeed "special", we can begin to act the part.... As for my boy... he is still floundering with his lifelong goals.... he has, at different times expressed a desire to be a millwright, an electrician and, lately an automotive tech. With this recent choice, he has the ability to earn more money than most universtiy graduates... Many of his other employment choices were no less dangerous than this one.... But why, in Gods name, should an unskilled labourer like a "rig pig" earn more money than some techs? Why do we see the odd staement like "I'm going to buy a truck and make some 'real' money"? It's an odd thing... understanding it might be a key to fixing it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Jim you have no idea how many times i sit there and ponder the same thing. We have to know so much, and we are the 2nd lowest paid trade i think it is? I dont tell people im a mechanic, i tell them im a diesel specialist for Ford. That sound good to you guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Seriously though, I agree to an immeasurable standpoint. The amount of information and constantly changing designs, applications, technologies, and advancements in this field are almost impossible to keep up with. Then there are those of us nerds who not only DO keep as up-to-date with all of that as possible, but go that extra mile and really look deeper into the smaller details about these vehicles and learn info that, although isn't necessary, *might* someday just come in helpful to you or those around you. It really is a shame that some technicians are so severely underpaid. I for one am not going to toot my own horn or anything and don't consider myself to be the most incredible technician ever to grace the planet, but I do know that I've taken enough time and put forth enough effort to really get a good grasp on as many facets of this business as possible. And because of that, I've found myself on more than a few occasions "schooling" others with *decades* more experience under their belt. I'm personally content with my pay but I don't have a family either, I'm 25, ridiculously single, play in a band.. I make more than enough to enjoy my current lifestyle and still put money away. But there are others who I konw are more valuable than I am who aren't making nearly what they should, and it's retarded. Some of these technicians are the brightest, smartest people you'll get the chance to come across who work harder than everyone in their neighborhood 5-6 days a week. I don't even know where I'm going \with this, all I know is that someday things *will* change for this trade, for the better. They have to. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 plain and simple the business sucks when it comes to wages. july brings an insulting $.50 a hour raise which will bring me to $30 a hour.(hourly no flat rape) alot of techs in this country would be very happy with that. i feel we deserve more. im in california east of the san fransico bay area and some of the highest housing cost in the country. where i live houses run $400,000-600,000. $30 a hour just isnt enough when you factor in the dealer charges $120 a hour customer pay and gets $105 a hour from ford for warranty. i support my wife who is a stay at home wife and 4 kids on my pay but dont have anything left over for fun or we have to save for a few months to go have fun. im 37 years old and have been doing this for 19 years now. on the bright side at the beginning of this year i started night courses at the college to learn a new trade. im heading into the computer field hopefully within the next 12 months. i did some research and with some advice from a few friends already in the computer field found i can make close to what im making now starting out and theres alot more room for advancement as long as i continue to learn and get certifications. in our profession we learn, spend loads of money on tools, get the certifications and then get told sorry thats the best we can do. the automotive business has been going the wrong direction the last few years in wages and benefits and until the every man for himself mentality the flat rate system breeds is finally fixed things wont get any better for the techs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Your CP labor rate is high but housing is not that bad. I am in Morris county NJ, modest homes are in the 400-600K range. Many of the new homes going up around me are pushing or exceeding the million dollar mark. I am sure that helps my property value but I don't think I will be moving any time soon! I have come to the conclusion that most techs that have put an honest look at wages and our profession think about 33% of the labor rate is fair compensation. This of course is provided we are worth 33% therefore there are still many more arguments to be made. I agree that something has to change too including a rethinking of technician classification, training and certification requirements. But who gets to determine all that? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Who would implement a plan? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Who would enforce it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif I know what you are thinking... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 No need to cry out the "U" word... I recall Dwayne and I bringing it up in a conversation a little while ago, and Jim's little fingers went wild! When you have a retail labor rate of $120 dollars an hour, is that the "effective" rate, or the posted rate? I imagine that it would be hard to sell a reline at that rate. I make 30% of the posted rate, but that works out to nearly 37% of our "effective" labor rate once you take into effect menu pricing and such. Which I don't feel is too bad when you think about how much overhead could be involved... But hey, I have worked with some "oldtimers" in the past that think that they should get half the door rate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 You know, I have to say that I am very happy with my decision to stay in the trade. I did get a descent raise when I scared my D.P. and I can't complain. However, the pay for me isn't so much of an issue. It's the expense. I am not one of those cheap bastard techs like I work with that will file down a screw driver and use it for a punch before they actually buy a punch and chisel set. I run my bay as my business. Because that is exactly what it is. I buy flat rate tools to do flat rate work. Or you could say that I buy efficient tools to do efficient work. I invest into my business and I try to make my business as efficient as possible. I also invest my heart and soul into it. I even buy tools that I shouldn't have to because my Service Manager is a cheap bastard. But like most shops I have worked in, he won't spend a dime because it eats away at his bonus based on gross profit. And I find myself buying tools that the shop should own. This was all part of my frustration with the place. But I was able to vent and dump all my frustrations on my D.P. He actually listened and we had a great outcome. Communication and understanding. my biggest beef is that we spend so damn much and most managers and Dealer Principals don't have a clue. My D.P. Didn't anyway. He figured I had about 20,000 dollars worth of tools. He almost choked when I told him I had 80,000 dollars worth. He only had us covered for 100,000 dollars in total for the whole shop (insurance). That was one of the changes he made after our talk. I never did bring up the topic of tool allowance. But I have seen some shops starting to pay tool allowances, which I think is at the very least some acknowledgement. And that is what I think is the biggest obstacle: Sales oriented Dealer Principals and managers that have no feakin idea what goes on in the backbone (service departments) of the dealerships. They only Know minimal investments with maximum profits. And you can't be that way anymore. It may have worked in the sixties but not anymore. Just my beef. But I feel much better know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 ... Tough to make house payments and have a few bucks left over for a few Coronas and a lime.... I couldn't get past the part about buying Mexican beer when you guys have all that good beer up there! ;-) Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 Well, he is only 19 and his taste for the finer things in life hasn't quite matured.... Hence, the overpriced "beer" that "needs" fruit in it to be palatable... When it comes to beer, I'm a Molsons man... eh? I AM Canadian /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 how do your service advisors make out,at my place they make more money then most of the techs,there is only 3 out of the 18 that make more then the service advisors, I just don't get this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 The service advisors don't make out all that well from what I can see.... Lord knows we've just gone through a period of really high turn-over with them. No idea if they get a commish on what they sell.... I'll creep out on a limb and say that there is a little sugar to be had but there isn't any of them that live in upscale housing or drives anything newish or dresses tin top quality duds....Comfortable, yes.... but they wont get rich at it. What would be nice is to see better wages for the service staff and mayhaps they could attract and keep some of the better ones. Techs, OTOH, are inundated with opportunities for factory training - a rate increase for each certification gained and a production bonus.... If an SLT leaves a guy a little flat, the shop "tops him up" as long as he isn't dogging it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 Kieth Browning!!!! Shame on you!! You have nearly uttered <THAT> word and for that we shall be forced to drop everything (well, maybe not our pants) and come down there and wash your mouth with soap.... I'm talking certification.... even tighter certification than we already have in Canada..... Get rid of the deadbeats and pretenders... the guys that feed substandard shops that give us and our craft a bad image ("But the guy down the street will do it for half that price!!!"). Sadly, there is a technician shortage... "they" want more techs and they will have them one way or another..... unfortunately, once they have another crop of techs that couldn't align a wheel barrow, they will bitch about how poorly "trained" they are... Blissfully ignorant that you can, indeed, lead a horse to water - but you just can't make him drink..... Take a look at what we are seeing on TDS, lately.... "My 05 quit and wont start and they can't figure out what's wrong with it!!". WHAT?!?! Some moron with a few tools and a pair of coveralls with his name over the left tit can't figure out how to open the freakin' PC/ED and go to "No Start Diagnostics"??? I'm ashamed for those guys..... I don't know what it is going to take to get tighter control over competency... but that is where the key to the concerns with this trade is going to lie.... We have trucks on our lot right now that sticker over $73K CAD - and that's before they add the toys... With consumers spending this kind of money, I think they deserve some kind of assurance that they will be protected from thieves, charlatans and inadequate pretenders... FWIW, the problems with this trade aren't new.... but they have gotten worse. When I was indentured as an apprentice (circa 1968), the trade was called "motor mechanic".... Pay was low, working conditions were never any better than mediocre and the public,by and large, scorned us (we were thieves, charlatans and inadequate). In Alberta, at any rate, training was offered... sorry, mandatory.... It laid the groundwork so that a tech could build on that knowledge base and become "good" and then "better"... That didn't mean he absorbed anything.... he could have been lucky enough to catch enough multiple "guess" questions to squeak through his apprenticeship. And it also doesn't mean that he will build on the groundwork that training laid out for him. 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class..... Sidebar..... I make more in .2 now than I made in an hour when I first got my Journeymans..... I make more in one hour now than I made in a week at my first full time job.... Do I sound elitist? You bet I do.... And we all should.... The fact that any of you are reading this shows that you care.... You care about your customer... you care about your product.... you care enough to gain more knowledge.... and you care about your career.... And that makes you better already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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