OTC Nemisys

[SteveS]

I am thinking of having my own scan tool. The shop has NGS, Tech 2, DRB and Modis, so there is pretty good coverage, at least up to the advanced tests on the 6.0L. But you know how it goes, there are times when half the shop needs the same scan tool. Since we work on Diesel pickups from all 3 manfacturers I'd like to have coverage in one package.

 

I am not expecting miricles but am wondering if anyone has experience with the Nemisys. Will it do the same self tests as the NGS? Will it display all the PIDs? A couple guys at the shop bought the cute little code reader from the MAC truck only to find that it does not always work (I suspect that it only reads Emission related codes).

 

I have seen the Nemisys new with 2006 level software for as low as $700, so the price would fit my budget and one unit that will cover all pickups would fit in my tool box. Has anybody used one?

 

TIA

Steve

[Bruce Amacker]

You state you work on all makes, and have OE scan tools for both GM and Chrysler (pre-CAN), but the glaring deficiency is in CAN Ford products. I don't know which CAN adapter you have (or may have) for the NGS, but even if you do have a VIM or VCM for the NGS, it's abilities are severely limited. My suggestion is to move away from the Nemisys. I've got a Genisys, and am not impressed with it's abilities.

 

I'm a Hickok distributor, and have not sold an NGS for 2+ years. Whenever a customer asks about buying one, I ask them, "Why? It's a dying horse". I know you're looking for a quick tool that's inexpensive for yourself to pull codes and data, but I'm not sure you'll be happy with the Nemisys. Talk to your boss about dumping the NGS and getting an IDS. I can promise he'll never look back once he does. The NGS still has some value (but getting less by the minute) so he can use that towards an IDS. If by slim chance you have the red VCM CAN adapter on your NGS, you're already 90% of the way to an IDS.

 

Ford never released the bidirectional CAN code to the aftermarket, so keep in mind that no aftermarket scan tool does any bidirectional tests on a late Ford vehicle. If you (he) saw the abilities of an IDS, you'd use the NGS for a wheel chock. Rotunda has IDS's in stock for immediate shipment at $2414, as I just bought my second one last week. You'll need a laptop with XP Pro to run it on.

 

ROI: It's 5 minute reflash abiility alone will recoup it's cost in less than 1 year if you reflash just 2 vehicles a month.

 

Good Luck!

[DwayneGorniak]

Steve I'd have to agree ith Bruce. We have a Mac Mentor wich is an Otc unit. And it is limited. I stongly suggest buying a laptop with XP Pro and trying to talk your boss into buying a VCM. If you convince your boss that you are eating some of the cost, he just may se it being economical for him to purchase the VCM or software for it if you already have one. That's exactly what I did. Bought my own laptop two years ago and my dealer principal bought an extra VCM for me to use. If you have your own laptop, you can do with it what you want. You can even buy the Autoenginuity scan tool software and install it on your laptop and you will then have a dual purpose scan tool. The capabilities are endless. And let me tell you, it is so nice having my own scan tool and never having to wait for one. I also don't have to worry about all the other techs running the darn thing dead and forgetting to plug it in. I also have a 175 watt power inverter that I cary in my laptop case and use for those extended diags. My battery is never dead. Just my two cents again.

[Keith Browning]

Rotunda has IDS's in stock for immediate shipment at $2414, as I just bought my second one last week.

Are you sure about that Bruce? Remember, I waited 13 weeks to get my VCM and that was only two months ago.

[SteveS]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

We have the white module for the NGS for Ford CAN. So far we've been using the Modis for Chrysler CAN and have the CANdi module for the Tech2. We are an aftermarket shop and have been sending trucks to the dealership if reflash is needed, would we ba able to get the latest programs if we had the tool to install them?

 

I have been resisting taking my laptop to work as I don't have a good place to keep it. If it weren't for that the AE scan tool adapter would be a higher choice.

 

My boss bought the Modis about a year ago (BIG BUCKS!!) and I believe that he feels it is under-utilized (probably very true on an investment/pay-off basis). I think that he is stinging a little from it, although it has been our primary heavy duty scan tool (mostly Cummins powered motorhomes). He has some remodel/expansion projects going right now and I don't see him wanting another expense at this moment.

 

The bulk of our Ford work is still 7.3 DI but the tool needs to have the same capability for Demand, Buzz, & Cyl Cont tests and PID readout as the NGS to be worth it. OBD1 capability would be helpful for IDI and early Dodge transmissions, and we still work on GM 6.5L.

 

I believe that the Mentor is the same as Genisys, isn't it? What limitations for a 7.3 did you encounter with that tool?

[DwayneGorniak]

The OTC will most likely due the trick for you on 7.3L's, but it's the future of the CAN systems that I would be concerned about. If you are working on that wide of a variety of systems, I think I would still be interested in the Autoenginuity system. From what I have read about it on the internet, you can get CAN adoptors for it as well. And the initial cost is cheap. $249.95 with CAN. It by far looks like the best and most economical scan tool system I have seen yet. I don't know anyone that can give me any feedback on it though. Try this Link:

http://www.autoenginuity.com/order.html

[Bruce Amacker]

Are you sure about that Bruce? Remember, I waited 13 weeks to get my VCM and that was only two months ago.

Yep, sure as sure gets. Ordered Thursday, June 28, delivered to my door Tuesday, July 3, 5 days later. I was amazed! It'll be for Anthony to use in class. $2414 plus $20 shipping with no tax for the IDS kit- VCM, cables, and software disc.

 

Damon Russell ordered one 11 months ago and gave them his CC#, and never got it.....

[Bruce Amacker]

The OTC will most likely due the trick for you on 7.3L's, but it's the future of the CAN systems that I would be concerned about. If you are working on that wide of a variety of systems, I think I would still be interested in the Autoenginuity system. From what I have read about it on the internet, you can get CAN adopters for it as well. And the initial cost is cheap. $249.95 with CAN. It by far looks like the best and most economical scan tool system I have seen yet. I don't know anyone that can give me any feedback on it though. Try this Link:

http://www.autoenginuity.com/order.html

Don't buy the $249 version, it is retail DIY version that is generic OBD2 only. Get the Pro version with all the bells and whistles which will cost you from $700-$1000 plus $50 per year for updates. I worked with Jay developing the 6.0 software and it is very good, but still no bidirectional on Ford CAN vehicles. Jay claims FMC wants $5 million for the CAN code. If you had to have a "one size fits all" scan tool, this would be my choice. Not only do I have it, but many of my fleets also have it, so I use it in class constantly. It comes with CAN standard.

[Bruce Amacker]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

We have the white module for the NGS for Ford CAN.

 

White module? There are only 2 CAN modules for the NGS, the blue Hickok VIM and the red Rotunda VCM. I have both and am not impressed with either one. Putting a VCM in an NGS is like putting a blown Hemi with a 1 BBL carb into a Vega. The incredible horsepower of the VCM cannot even be realized because of the limitations of the NGS interface. The blue VIM is nothing more than an aftermarket add-on that Hickok devised once Ford dropped them as an OE supplier several years ago. They wrote the software for it, which is far from perfect.

 

So far we've been using the Modis for Chrysler CAN and have the CANdi module for the Tech2. We are an aftermarket shop and have been sending trucks to the dealership if reflash is needed, would we ba able to get the latest programs if we had the tool to install them?

 

The IDS updates itself daily and downloads the latest reflashes from the internet daily. That means when you do a reflash, it is the latest calibration up to the minute. Also, it updates the IDS software daily, which means sometimes you open it up and there's a new test (like the 8 step EGR test) that the engineers installed in your PC last night while you were sleeping. No matter how well I build this tool up, it is still better than I make it out to be. Trust me.

 

I have been resisting taking my laptop to work as I don't have a good place to keep it. If it weren't for that the AE scan tool adapter would be a higher choice.

 

My boss bought the Modis about a year ago (BIG BUCKS!!)

Big time wasted bucks if you ask me, but you didn't. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

 

and I believe that he feels it is under-utilized (probably very true on an investment/pay-off basis). I think that he is stinging a little from it,

 

Stinging a little? You think?

 

 

although it has been our primary heavy duty scan tool (mostly Cummins powered motorhomes).

 

Another one of it's weak points. How many have you noticed so far?

 

He has some remodel/expansion projects going right now and I don't see him wanting another expense at this moment.

 

I'll open my big mouth and get vocal here. Tell him to dump that POS Modis and the NGS which is in a crash and burn dive, and buy an IDS and a Pico Scope, and still put $2K towards his remodeling project.

 

The bulk of our Ford work is still 7.3 DI but the tool needs to have the same capability for Demand, Buzz, & Cyl Cont tests and PID readout as the NGS to be worth it.

 

All scan tools have those tests, as they are very basic.

 

OBD1 capability would be helpful for IDI and early Dodge transmissions, and we still work on GM 6.5L.

 

You have so many scan tools that talk OBD1 that this is not even an issue.

 

 

I believe that the Mentor is the same as Genisys, isn't it?

 

Yes.

 

What limitations for a 7.3 did you encounter with that tool?

 

None on the 7.3, as it uses very basic communication architecture. You're using two real boat anchors right now in the NGS and Modis, and until you have an IDS demonstrated to you for a few hours or a week, you will never believe what I'm telling you. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

[SteveS]

Thanks for the input! Bruce I especially appreciate that you have had the opportunity to operate and demo the tools at an instructional level.

 

DUH! I thought about it later and realized that the old module on the NGS is white; I am remembering that the CAN module (that plugs in the bottom of the Tee body with the cable attached) is black. Maybe it is blue and the memory is fading again.

 

I was not aware that the Ford Self tests were part of most scan tools. My other experience has been with the Snap On 2500 that would run all the tests and a little unit the Mac salesman had that would not run any self tests, couldn't read many 7.3 codes and only about 3 or 4 PIDs. I guess if it has Ford specific programming then it should have full 7.3 capability.

 

Is there a website that you know of for a virtual tour of the IDS? Are the updates included with the tool, avaliable for fee (per use or subsription) or only available to dealerships? And if it is available to me (Mr. Independant Repairshop) does it have the bulletin or boradcast message that goes with the reflash or revised procedure?

 

I would assume that the IDS would have generic CAN scan tool capability, but what about the Chrysler specific program that (I think) the Modis has? What tool would you use for heavy duty truck applications? If I am going to attempt to sell the idea of upgrading I'll need as much info as possible.

 

Thanks a lot for the help (I'll bet that now you wish that you had just told me to buy the OTC).

Steve

[Bruce Amacker]

Thanks for the input! Bruce I especially appreciate that you have had the opportunity to operate and demo the tools at an instructional level.

 

DUH! I thought about it later and realized that the old module on the NGS is white; I am remembering that the CAN module (that plugs in the bottom of the Tee body with the cable attached) is black. Maybe it is blue and the memory is fading again.

 

It's actually black with a big blue label, but the predominate color is blue.

 

 

Is there a website that you know of for a virtual tour of the IDS?

 

None that I know of.

 

Are the updates included with the tool, available for fee (per use or subscription)

 

I think it's 2 years of flash calibrations and updates included, and $500/year after that. I think they screwed up and gave me 2 years for $500 on my last renewal. Ask your boss how much Snappy is hosing him for two year old software updates with no flash calibrations. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

 

 

or only available to dealerships?

 

Due to EPA regulations, all scan tools that are available to OE car dealers must be available to aftermarket techs at the same cost.

 

And if it is available to me (Mr. Independent Repair shop) does it have the bulletin or broadcast message that goes with the reflash or revised procedure?

 

Yes, it gives you a list of TSB's and SSM's that are applicable to each reflash. Send me an e-mail at bamacker@aol.com and I'll send you some screen captures.

 

I would assume that the IDS would have generic CAN scan tool capability,

 

Strangely enough, it does not. It talks to Fords only and nothing else.

 

but what about the Chrysler specific program that (I think) the Modis has?

 

I'm not aware of any Mopar specific stuff in the Modis.

 

 

What tool would you use for heavy duty truck applications?

 

OE software. You guys don't realize what you're missing using aftermarket stuff.

 

 

If I am going to attempt to sell the idea of upgrading I'll need as much info as possible.

 

Your boss needs to come to my Scan Tool Decision class, too bad I'm not doing it near you. I see by your tag you're in WA- I teach every fall at WSAFC in Yakima. Is that near you? I'll be doing 6.0 and 6.4 PSD training there September 10-14, and it's open to the public.

 

Thanks a lot for the help (I'll bet that now you wish that you had just told me to buy the OTC).

 

Yea, I'm thinking the same thing. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Steve