How do you swap balljoints?

[GregH]

I've read a few threads recently on other sites about having to replace a large number of balljoints. We do our fir share here too, and I was reminded of an incident that happened on my last balljoint job.

 

I'm hip deep into the repair, and another technician comes over to see. He was quite surprised to see the method I employed to remove the spindles on a F-super duty 4x4...

 

Got me thinking - how does everyone else do this job?

[Keith Browning]

Ahhhh, we are getting into some good stuff this week. You guys are impressing me! Interesting question Greg. There are two methods used in my shop, both of which I have used but I have gone back to how I started doing them from the beginning.

 

Method 1- Complete disassembly and removal of all parts in the knuckle. Unbolting and removing the wheel bearing/hub and then removing the axle shaft.

 

Method 2- requires leaving the rotor bolted to the hub to give a surface to pry on. Unbolting the wheel bearing/hub and removing the hub, rotor, axle shaft together as an assembly.

 

My opinion is that method 2 can save time but leaves the potential for a comeback that you have no excuse for, especially if you are the type that doesn't check if the 4X4 works when you are done. I used to have a guy working with us that did ball joints this way. Broken ABS sensors, brake rotors beat to hell causing brake vibrations and my favorite, the un-mistakable backing plate rubbing noise going around turns. That really pisses me off when I have to go for a road test with a customer after they pick up their truck only to discover that "knuckles" not only bent up all kinds of shit under the truck but obviously never road tested it either. My current technicians typically use this method with no problems so I don't say anything.

 

But method 1 is what I have decided upon as my personal choice. A truck more than a couple of years old deserves to have all of the components cleaned off and inspected and don't forget those NEEDLE BEARINGS! And as far as time goes? how much time are we really saving? We get 5 hours retail for a 4X4 ball joint repair which includes time to replace the knuckle seals and therefore I don't see how you can justify not breaking it all down. Exception? A fairly new truck with a premature ball joint failure or making an axle repair... then method 2 is fine with me.

 

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[Jim Warman]

We get 5.9 for 4X4 ball joints... this includes replace the knuckle seals, axle tube dust seals and O-rings.... While we are in there is the perfect time to renew these parts (unless someone is a glutton for punishment.... we do check ESOF operation after a ball joint job, right?).

 

Look at it this way... it will be extra profit in parts and, if we later find a leaking knuckle seal, it will be covered under service part warranty and not be another chargeback....

 

My opinion - not replacing these seals during ball joint replacement is a lot like washing your feet and then putting your dirty socks back on....

[Brad Clayton]

Anyone had a coil spring 4x4 apart yet? The spindle bearing has been moved to the 4x4 hub and not in the bearing assy anymore. Very time and cost saving on everyones part to service now. We get a lot of spindle bearing failures up here, and most of the time it's no big deal because the ball joints are due also, but now instead of the customer paying a ton to have them serviced it can be done at a regular interval reasonably.

 

I've tried both of Keiths methods, number 2 when it had a dually adapter bolted on to keep rotor in place. But I agree with what is said here, it's nice to get everything apart and give the customer thier moneys worth. Even if you work at a snails pace you won't lose time.

[DwayneGorniak]

Metod #1 in our dealership and every other dealership I have worked for. I personally don't consider #2 acceptable. "Fixed Right The First Time" is what we should all live by. We are preached that throughout our whole Ford career. Why would we do it any other way?

[Keith Browning]

Why would we do it any other way?

Because time is money. Comebacks and angry customers don't appear to bother some guys. I believe there is some acceptable gray area here but I don't want to be responsible for defining it. I personally don't mind the extra five minutes it takes to pull it completely apart.

[Jim Warman]

You hit the nail square on the head.... (wanna come and help with my siding?)...

 

And the pendulum swings both ways.... Some service departments have some pretty big cojones when it comes to charging a customer for a second or even third repair stemmking from the original... Some techs are driven by the almighty dollar.... (I have a couple that head to the office at least once a month for their "year to date"...

 

I come from an old, old school.... look after the customers and they will look after you. Too many dealerships appear to work on the "they belong to us for the next three years" idea.... I want them for life.... I want them for every dime they are prepared to invest in maintenance and repairs.... I want them long after their warranty has expired......

 

Some of my customers have been coming to me for over 20 years... When other techs are idle, I still have a full dance card.

 

It's all part of a great big equation - our area is affluent and this may make a difference.... happy customers spend money...

[Alex Bruene]

I have never even considered doing this job any other way completely disassembling the knuckles. How much time can you save the other way... half an hour maybe? It still takes under 2 hours replace the ball joints (properly)... how much gain time are people after to do it the other way?

[eastendpowerstroke]

Most of my guys(well all but one) use method one. The one is just a hack and has an array of fence posts,air chisels, plumbing pipes, hammers, and 4 letter word to do the job.

I personally remove the wheel speed sensor from the hub just so it doesn't get damaged. clean any rust lube everything real well new yellow o ring always, seals, and dust boots if even slightly questionable.

I use a OTC (QT1072 Front Hub Puller) because I have had it for a long time but it needs to be adapted for FSD use with two long 1/2 bolts and nuts, knock two studs out of the hub and put the bolts in and it pushes on the axle to help push the hub out.

with that tool and my OTC ball joint press and full adapter kit I can do 4 ball joints on a 4x4 FSD in less than .9 usually, plus alignment

[Tony302600]

IM not going to tell you what I got once for doing E450 balljoints bcuz u guys would kill me and i dont think anyone has ever gotten as much as i did, but 4x4 SD we get 6 plus alignment. I usually take them apart fully. F-450 2wd we get 5.0, and 2wd f250-350 we get 3.6.

[Alex Bruene]

E450 pays 5.1 in Chilton. We cut the customer a break and only charge them 5.0... heh...

[Ray_Clark]

Only option to me is full diss. Always replace all seals and check needle bearings and u joints while apart.

[BrunoWilimek]

I just finished replacing all the seals on the front halfshafts/hubs of an 05 F350 4X4 yesterday. (the same job as ball joints, but stopping before removing the spindles) I had remembered reading about the "easier" way to do this job and since only the inner halfshaft to axle housing seals were bad(customer just bought truck and noticed one seal rattling around halfshaft, so we were replacing them at our cost)I briefly considered doing it this(easy)way. Remembering from past experience how hard these were to take apart due to the rust issue from road salt, I discarded the idea very quickly. In order to get the outer seals out of the spindle, I had to mangle them to the point they were bent out of shape and in pieces. 2 large pry bars on the inside of the inner seal, prying on the axle housing failed to dislodge the seals/halfshafts from the spindle. Had I removed the hubs/rotors/halfshafts as an assmbly, I would have been faced with a very heavy awkward unit to dis-assemble and replace the outer seals. This technique might cut it where rust is not an issue, or if the hub has been recenly apart and had all pertinent parts cleaned of rust and anti-seize liberally applied to all rust prone areas, but otherwise is a no-go here in the rust belt. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

[Shlep]

I've been in bitter debates about this in the past and method one is the only way I'll do the repair and it must have new seals on anything that I tear apart, last thing I need is a farmer stuck in the field with his 4x4 inop /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif