Whose job is it....

[Jim Warman]

On the Canadian message board, someone started a thread about who had the responsibility of costing out repair estimates... I prepared a magnificent reply and, with the censorbot flexing it's mighty transistors, I was informed that my posting was under review..... whatever "under review" is.

 

So, I told all those heathens that I would start a thread over here on DTS (damn... that almost came out TDS.... hmmm - TDS - tedious.... oh, never mind)....

 

It appears that many techs spend their time costing out their own estimates... seems strange that there would be a need for it since I firmly believe that this job should fall to the service advisors and that they damned well better learn how to do it right... and that the tech better damned well learn how to write the estimate properly if he expects the SA to justify a charge to the customer.

 

A lot of our stuff is "menu" priced - not a big deal.... still mopre of our stuff, the SA can fairly easily refer to a previous estimate for guidance.... If all else fails, they come to me and, in extreme circumstances we can ask the tech to review the estimate with me to be sure that a particular vehicle isn't going to present a problem...

 

A techs time is much better spent doing what techs do... diag and fix....

 

Our store has no reservations about charging diag time on a retail job... used to be diag was a no brainer.... "yep... needs points and condenser and a choke pull off" (not to worry, Kieth, I tell you youngsters all about chokes one of these days)... Customers too young to remember those days have been groomed by their elders to expect "free diagnosis" - impossible in todays market....

 

So here we are.... we're gonna charge someone $150 simply to say that we're going to charge him more money.... add prep time on to the estimate and we are getting into $200+.... and we haven't fixed anything yet..... Customers are going to rebel over this... and it is these retail customers that we need to entice - not alienate...

 

As an afterthought.... how many simply estimate the concern.... and how many use common sense on an upsell approach... I upsell like an SOB - but everything is righteous - and if there is a question, I can prove my suggestions.... no smoke, no mirrors, no hype... THIS PART IS IMPORTANT!!!! Integrity is your best defence.

 

And that brings us to even another sidebar.... KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER... do they have a "thresh-hold of pain".... are they willing to gamble on brake pads that are at or below 3mm? Are they willing to put up with the inconvenience of a "surprise" repair or do they insist on top notch servicability? How about their finances? If a major repair is in their future, we can prepare them... let them know that now is the time to start saving for that looming repair...

 

Yes, a lot of breakdowns can't be quantified that way.. but when we consider "sacrificial" parts... brakes, driveline components, tune up components, steering and suspension items... we can reduce the frustration and inconvenience to our customers through some simple planning... perhaps some prioritizing...

 

I have a significant number of what could be called "loyal" customers.... to a point, I am given "carte blanche" with their vehicles... knowing these limits... knowing these customers... well, this can send the SAs into conniption fits when they see me making what appears to be cavalier decisions...

 

Wow... talk about digressing....

 

I'm often stopped on the street and engaged in small talk... usually something about their car or truck or advice given that worked.... my loving bride will ask "who was that?" (since I didn't introduce her) and I can only answer "I have no idea....".

 

Anyway... if we, as techs, stick to doing what we should be doing and learn to delegate those things we can delegate while training these other hirelings to THEIR job well... we can earn the trust and respect of those people that will turn us into techs that will be more than adequately recompensed for our efforts...

[DwayneGorniak]

I see your point Jim. But I have worked in alot of dealerships that have gready Service managers and uneducated Service advisors that don't give a rats ass about how they do up their estimates. This always causes animosity between the advisors/manager and techs. having worked in shit holes like that, i am absolutely sick and tired of getting fucked and having waste half and hour here and there of may time arguing about getting paid fairly when I can do a proper estimate myself. Lets face it, service advisors and some managers are not technicians and don't always know every little thing that has to be done with a repair.

 

At the same though, Our service manager who used to be a tech keeps an eye on estimates just to make sure we are not gouging customers like the gas companies gouge society.

 

And doing estimates in my does not take much time at all. I keep estimate sheets in my box and as I am ispecting or diaging a vehicle I jot the things down that it needs. I also have Alldata available at my fingertips for retail estimating. This can be very efficient if you think about it. The service advisors don't have to turn their back to customers while doing estimates or miss phone calls. They can also be the proffessionals that they should be and explain the estimates to customers after they are done up. The Service advisors do all the adding up of the labour and figure out the rates because we have menu priced rates.

 

I used to be Foreman just like yourself at another dealership Jim. I have seen alot of different ways of doing things. And I have to say that this sytem works pretty good as long as someone is overlooking the system and making sure everthing is on the straight and narrow.

 

I woud never go back to being fucked the way I have been at other dealerships. Hope I made some sense.

[Tony302600]

As far as doing our own writeups.... I get the truck, get to the point on what it came in for.. do the MPI sheet, give them the prices on parts and what it needs. The Service writer figures out labor times, discounts, and 8 times out of 10 sell more then what i rec. I dont like blowing the customer out of the water, especially on first time visits, that is a big no no for me.

 

I do constantly recognize what companies come in most, and who takes care of their trucks, I understand whats "TOO MUCH" on an estimate. I know how to tell them, "yea, they can go one more oil change, or NO WAY its a matter of safety." That is one reason Henkels and McCoy only bring their trucks here and keep us alive. ComEd is one of those companies that if one dealership says enough is enough u need to stop doing this we cant cover it anymore they just go to the next one. Consiquently we are that dealership now, waiting to tell them stop using b20.

 

There are techs in the gas shop that dont give 2 shits about the customer. Blow them out of the water for something simple like the customer coming in for a dome light stays on, and leaving with a $3,000 bill. If the service writer doesnt sell it the techs start fuming and gets pissed off refusing to work on the car til they get some "gravy." That pisses me off. There is one tech that doesnt understand "you win some you lose some" There is another tech that told a service write who had a question about something he was trying to sell basically told him "just sell the goddamn job it needs all of it, tell the customer to bring their checkbook and shut up." Then turned to me and laughed and i felt sick to my stomach. (that car came back for the concern it was origianally in for"

 

I reached my boiling point when that same tech pulled in a 2005 F-350 6.0 with brakes grinding, LOF, and fuel filter. He asked me how to rack it, he asked me questions. HE gave the customer a $2500 bill. I am knee deep in 6.0 warranty work because other tech is on vacation. One of the service writers gave it to him (who we all hate). I was in the middle of doing a Y-pipe on a early 03 6.0. When i saw the truck and the write up. i felt at ease because i knew i would get it especially because its a diesel. When the asshole pulled it in I ran up to the service writer who handed it to him ( it was his ticket ) and flipped out and then told the service manager. The guy that hands out work was on lunch, i told him afterwords that will never happen again, if it does i quit. Its not fair. It really isnt. Did he get repremanded...no... did anyone say anything to me...no.... stuff like that makes me want to quit. If it happens again, i will. There are times when me and the other diesel tech are slow and we go to get something, they tell us "we have nothing" and the gas guys are doing loads and loads of flushes, brakes. I'll be damned if they take jobs away from me and Andy.

 

Thanks for letting me vent, i needed it.

[Keith Browning]

Then there is my current situation. I have a new service writer, who does not know our computer system and is for now, creating a lot of leg work for me. He has a great attitude and should shape up nicely as long as our customers don't make him quit.

[Rickster42]

Tony, you just described my shop to a T.... If it`s cake it`s up for grabs, warranty shit, or some diag required? save it for Rick..

Best one is diesel PDI`s - apparently anyone in the shop can do that if Rick is busy... We are also an SVT dealer so I see an SVT in the lot a while back and I`m slow so I say hey give me that SVT pdi - nope has to wait for the svt tech on holidays...wtf. Then yesterday the foreman asks me if I would do some tsb for rear axle shaft bolts breaking on a gt40(svt tech away again). Heres what I told him "I really have no interest in tsb shit work on a gt40, I just want to scoop the gravy pdi.Sound familiar?" he just walked away nodding...

[Tony302600]

Well Rick, I will admit that the service manager and dispatcher came out to me and apologized for the ignorance of the service writer. Now the guy took the day off so i have to look at the job taken apart all day tying up a truck rack. while i do stupid cosmetic bitching shit on a 08 F-450 (headlamp switch paint peeling, window making noise) and the owner doesnt understand he needs to use USLD not LSD, then badmouths the truck.

 

Our service manager ALWAYS looks at whats fair to the techs before anything else. It wont happen again he said. Those are the perks of an awesome service manager. He understands that these 6.0's are unpredictable so he doesnt get on our case.

 

When i had to reseal a 3rd member on a 550 all the gas guys shut their mouths about how much the "diesel princes" make when they saw how big it was.

[Alex Bruene]

You see, I don't expect an advisor to be able to "assess" the condition of a vehicle to the point of knowing if any additional time would be required on top of the "Chilton" time because of rust, add on hydraulics and such. In that sense, it just seems easier if I write my own estimates. We have 4 techs and 2 advisors in our commercial shop, who write ROs (sometimes as many as 30 in a day), sell jobs, follow up with customers, book appointments and call around fishing for new accounts when they have time. That's more than enough for them to do without having to prepare estimates. They trust us to not rape anyone, and we never need any management intervention.

[Jim Warman]

That's where adequate communication comes in... FWIW, I have been speaking of the lack of communication in shops for something like 30 years...

 

Our estimates need to spell outt any extra time considerations... from rust to PTOs to toolboxes welded to the frame right where the spring bolts are.... We also need to spell out those times when we feel there will be a need for a repair and re-evaluate (I have an early build with two bad injectors and a biased ICP.... with an intermittent no start hot - repair and re-evaluate is the only thing I can chooes at this time).

 

We will have to explain the need for extra charges to the customer at some point and, in the case of a V-Mac or other stumbling block, we can write in our concept of the extra time needed.... This will give the SA ammo come time to phone the customer. He/she is the one that will have to explain the extra time to the customer - it is up to us to make sure they don't stammer like idiots. Communication...

 

Believe this or not... I've had an SA come to me to ask for clarification on a point and having to explain it reminds me of things I have missed in the process... this also allows us to prioritize things for those with difficult finances... Let's remember that it is the SA that is dealing customer direct.

 

If an SA is constantly making mistakes, it's time for a new SA. If they don't want the job, why are they wasting our oxygen? They can go waste someone elses (would you like fries with that?).

 

Our SAs cost our estimates and I have two diesel masters that bitch about how much income tax they pay.... we have just gotten a pay raise and our top producers are getting dangerously close to the 29% bracket.... if you catch my drift.

[snw blue by you]

This is almost humorous.

 

I am the ONLY diesel tech in our shop, the one guy that I was training called it quits about 2 months ago and is doing tatoos full time at a reputable shop, he's making more money and never gets dirty.

 

The point is that I am so swamped with warranty driveability that I don't have the time to do customer pay work, so I don't even fret estimates.

 

If there are customer pay lines on the RO, after I finish I hand that work off to one of the other senior techs in the shop.

 

Newbies don't get freebies!

 

As a result I get a helping hand, without question, whenever I need it, and that includes guys picking up other warranty jobs on a ticket that are not diesel related.

 

This is not to say I don't perform pay maintainence on my jobs, that I do while repairing warranty items, but simply put, I don't have the time to get involved with brakes, steering, tires, etc.

 

At almost 6'3" 275lbs with a low pentchant for stupidity, my three SAs know not to get me pissed, so when I relay info to them about a vehicle they try and make every effort to communicate with the customer.

 

Everyone knows that I will not be the last man standing, holding a bag of crap in my hands, just because someone else didn't do their job.

 

Is it perfect? No, but it's far from the worst place I've worked for.

 

I know what my job is, I do it and then I go home.