For those who havent yet looked at the post

Tony302600 · August 13, 2007

On the Ford Forums:

Here is a story of a local guy took his 2004 F-150 to an independent local garage for a tuneup, They said cab needed to come off. UNBELIEVABLE. Text posted below but here is link with pictures: http://www.wgal.com/news/13763192/detail.html

Popular Pickup May Harbor 100,000-Mile Surprise

AKRON, Pa. -- What should have been a simple maintenance job turned into a $2,000 ordeal for a Lancaster County pickup truck owner and a mechanic.

Larry Ross said he bought his 2004 Ford F-150 in August 2006. The truck had nearly 100,000 miles on it, but Ross said it was in great shape. Ross took the truck to his mechanic a few months ago to keep it running smoothly.

IMAGES: Mechanics Pull Apart Ross' Truck

"We were just going to do a routine spark plug check as recommended by Ford at 100,000 miles," Ross said.

Ross said that the job should have been done in one day and cost no more than $200. But there was a problem. Ross said his mechanic realized he wasn't going to be able to get to all of the spark plugs inside the engine. The only way he could get to all eight of them was by removing the entire cab of the truck, according to Ross.

The mechanic said that he had never seen the type of spark plug that was inside the F-150. He said the plug is twice as long as normal and has a metal sleeve on it.

"When you rotate this spark plug and try to extract it, then you break this thing loose and it pulls out, leaving this piece into the head," said one mechanic.

The only way to get to the broken pieces and change the plugs was to take the cab off the truck, the mechanic said. Eight on Your Side consumer reporter Brian Roche asked the mechanic about the problem.

Roche: "How did you feel as the mechanic calling the owner of this vehicle saying, 'Listen, this simple little job is going to become a major situation?'"

Mechanic: "How would you feel getting the phone call saying that your $200 tune-up is now gonna be $2,000 or more?"

Ross said he had no problem with what his mechanic did. Ross said Ford told him the issue wasn't their problem.

Roche called Ford, telling them, "We think this is an issue that would be of interest to all vehicle owners."

While News 8 waited for a statement from Ford, Ross got a letter from the company and a check for almost the entire cost of his repair.

A Ford spokesman in Detroit told Roche that the cab of the truck did not have to be removed to make the repair. But Roche said it's apparent that Ford realizes there's an issue because last year the company issued specific instructions and a special tool to remove the spark plugs from the Ford Triton engine.

The truck in News 8's story had a lot of miles on it. As other owners take their 2004 Ford F-150s in for the 100,000-mile maintenance, they could face the same spark plug problem. There are about 350,000 Ford F-150 pickups from model year 2004.

Aaron · August 13, 2007

One picture is captioned that a Detroit engineer said you don't have to take the cab off to fix this problem and you can almost read the author's sarcasm in the reply. Fairly certain that I've done a cylinder head and a motor in that exact truck without removing the cab. Also fairly certain that I've watched another tech retrieve the broken off tip using the special tool. Also done with the cab on the truck.

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Keith Browning · August 14, 2007

The article all but states Ford has a problem. One could debate that for either side of the argument. But it also reeks of an independent that is inexperienced with the product and not equipped with the proper tools to perform the job. Since I have not driven an F150 in over six years, let alone change spark plugs, I gotta ask are they really a problem?

I am of the opinion that a steel spark plug should not remain in an aluminum cylinder head for 100,000 miles.

Jim Warman · August 14, 2007

Wow.... now here is an inept store.... they wont spend the money to access documentation (or they did and they aren't smart enough to access it)... The reporter is interviewing a tech that appears to be truly inadequate for not researching such a major undertaking... and instead of doing an earthshattering expose on inadequate shops, they listen to a freaking hack and, in not so many words, lay the fiasco on Fords doorstep...

Don't get me wrong.. do we have a concern with the aluminum heads? You betcha!!! But we're smart enough, I would hope, to research these troublesome things a little before we commit to a course of action.

Now, before some of the guys not quite in the loop about shop costs get a knot in their Haynes.... One of my yellow service DVDs came up missing... the one up to 2002. They want over $3000 for a replacement.... Our first VCMs subscription came up with the yellow nag screen... $420 per year. Drop shipped tools... you really think that Ford is giving us these out of the kindness of their heart? While there'll never be an invoice, they HAVE been paid for.

So... a dealership is no stranger to the cost of documentation, training and tooling....

The reporter seemed to relish the knowledge that Ford developed a special tool to remove the spark plug jacket.... "There is a problem!!!! Yippee!!!"... OK, and the tool addresses the problem quite handily IMHO...

But it still galls me.... Here was the perfect opportunity to expose those shops and techs that take a cavalier attitude towards maintaining and repairing a customers vehicle... and instead, it is elevating this moron to a saintly stature.... This trade needs a damned good shaking up... a wake up call.. The world needs to be reminded that "50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class".

Oh... I forgot... According to many other forums... this is so easy "even a cave man could do it..."..... in 45 minutes... in the driveway at home...

Keith Browning · August 14, 2007

Jim, you should send that post in to that newspaper and see if they print it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif That was exactly what needed to be said.

G. Bedford · August 14, 2007

This is a confusing article in many ways. The customer states that Ford is responsible because they issued the bulletin and made a special tool. The customer and shop were aware of the information on the spark plug concerns it seems. So, I don't see lack of information as the problem. In one of the pictures on the link I had seen before, the Ford extraction tool is seen laying on the work bench. So, lack of tooling seems to be knocked out, too. My feeling is the shop simply preferred to do the job cab off for their own reasons. And the customer bought in. If the customer had done his homework he would have found other shops willing to do the repair differently and cheaper/quicker.

LARRY BRUDZYNSKI · August 14, 2007

I agree to what everybody is saying regarding the article. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif The problem I have is that all of our dealers have this thing called a ESTIMATE, the customer has a choice to accept the estimate or decline and go somewhere else. The dealer he had his truck at should be the one at fault for the obvious incorrect way of repairing the vehicle, NOT FORD /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

Tony302600 · August 14, 2007

We have had 3-4 5.4 3v trucks in the past year that get towed in from an independent shop and the owners said they wanted us to take the broken spark plug out because the indy shop wanted to take the cab off and didnt know what to do. Thats what the dumbass owner should have done.

Also it was stupid for Ford to pay for it, that further fueled in the ignorance of the reporter.

Keith Browning · August 14, 2007

Strange irony: I was discussing a few things with my service manager this morning and happened to notice a spark plug with a really long electrode sitting atop a stack of files. Ring! goes the bell. I knew immediately that the plug represented this topic and asked what it came from... and how are we fixing it... fishing to see if my service manager or the tech knew of TSB 06-15-2 or the tool. No.

Perhaps I can assume that this vehicle was the first one of these failures that the other side of the shop has come across so far. I would expect more from a coworker, a technician, to have come up with this TSB and a direction for repairing this truck. Apparently, the effort was not made and this worries me. This is a seasoned, well trained tech that has been with us for years and he cant even check for TSB's? Oh, this is one of the guys who just gave notice which could explain this... but there really is no excuse for it. Do we have the right to look down upon independents when many of us in the dealers don't utilize the vast information that is so readily available to us???

For crying out loud, it took me, a DIESEL tech two minutes to navigate the PTS web site and bring up the TSB... without a repair order or even a VIN! We are doomed!

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Mekanik · August 14, 2007

I can't believe that they wrote this article to sound like this is just a big suprise that every f150 owner will experience. I know we all do it for our own reasons, but Ford does not even endorse removing the cab on this vehicle. The whole "cab off" is a totally seperate debate. If a tech wants to remove the cab to remove a broken spark plug, I respect it but I really don't think it is neccesary. I haven't had to remove a broken plug on a 3 valve 5.4l yet. This article makes it sound that every one of theese things that needs a tune-up will be a 2000.00 ordeal. I'm sure it wouldn't be as bad of a repair if they went to a dealer in the first place. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

Keith Browning · August 15, 2007

Strange irony Part 2: Spoke with the tech, the customer was replacing the spark plugs himself and somehow broke #8 in the head. The porcelain broke off inside the sleeve about a 1/4" in from the top. He cant get the porcelain to break or come out of the sleeve and he cant get the tap to thread in. This one will be interesting for sure. He thinks he's going to end up removing the head to pop it out... maybe. This is a good sales customer but not that good to do it for free. Why should we eat it?

Tony302600 · August 15, 2007

Keith, I can't believe that you haven't seen the plugs break yet. We had 2 handsful before the tool came out and we made our own tools and our own procedures for getting them out. All i know is the gas techs now get the truck warm ( not hot ) turn the plug 1/8 turn, put that new penetrate in the plug holes, let them sit for 3-4 hours and walla they come out like butter. Just my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

Brad Clayton · August 15, 2007

The three P's are definetly the way to go with these, penetrate, patience, and persistance.

Either that or stay buried in diesel work and they won't be an issue.

Keith Browning · August 15, 2007

All i know is the gas techs now get the truck warm ( not hot ) turn the plug 1/8 turn, put that new penetrate in the plug holes, let them sit for 3-4 hours and walla they come out like butter.

I'll pass that along in the morning! Cant hurt.

Mike Jeanotte · August 15, 2007

We had one here with the porcelain broken off and stuck in the sleeve we took a long metal rod sharped it to a point and tapped the procelain with the engine running trying to break it into small pieces after a while the whole thing shot out of the spark plug hole. Just make sure you dont have you head over the hole when your doing it.