G. Bedford

No defense needed, Jared. I posted because you stated the vehicle was fixed, but certainly the owner did not feel that way. In this day of customer surveys I felt you should have a heads up if this post was about the same rig.

Man, I hope this ain't the truck you were working on. http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f23/new-egr-turbo-pcm-what-now-192505/

I had done a number of radiators and then last month had F-Series ambulance come in with a leaker. When I popped the hood I noticed both battery trays empty since the batteries had been re-located. What a sweet and easy access it was. So now I prefer to R/I the batteries when I do radiators. I also found after removing the radiator clamps if you shove back on the radiator/shroud assembly you can pull the rubber donuts off. This makes it much easier to remove the upper radiator cross brace. I take the donuts off the new radiator and install them after putting the brace back into position.

Along with what Tony said a dripping injector can cause a start attempt seen as a speed increase or a slow down from hydro-lock.

Well, there used to be a joke that as you entered South Dakota a sign at the state line announced, "Welcome to South Dakota, set your watch back twenty years."! So, to open up to a larger world I surf many an auto related site to get a feel for where things are headed.

I read this series some time back and realized just how low wages can go. It is simply an eye opening must read. I applaud the American workers for making great wages while it lasted. Read the series here http://detnews.com/specialreports/2004/driven/

http://media.navistar.com/index.php?s=43&item=121

Easiest way to understand is to grab a new oil cooler from parts. Install the radikit as the picture shows on the one port with the other open to atmosphere. Now since it is not restricted you will see you have no resistance to your air flow and the gauge will not pull a vacuum. Now slowly cover the open hole with your thumb and notice as the opening becomes smaller the gauge begins to read an amount of vacuum. This mimics the passages becoming clogged. I had an oil cooler that had a 30 degree difference in temp. and it pulled 15-16" quickly. So, I think the test is valid. Remember though, any measurable vacuum is a fail.

My feeling is the problem wasn't the process. It was that no party was billed for the diagnosis. If the owner of the vehicle doesn't want to finalize the repair, it is billed to them. It is customer pay, period. If the shop doesn't want to charge them, the shop internals the ticket and pays my time. Amazing how when it is just the shops dime, they do a better job of getting the owner to return to complete the repair. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif

Hmmmm, a shortage of technicians? Nope. More accurate would be a shortage of technicians willing to work for the wages and benefits this industry offers. In our area, the shops that complain they can't find techs, had a full complement at one time. Only to see them leave for better opportunities. Really, if what is offered won't retain the talent you now have, are you surprised it won't attract those with the same drive? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

I would bet the 10 minutes is the Federal emissions threshold allowed to come up to a "clean" operating temperature. Ford can no more extend the time counter than they can delete the DPF. Ford is probably trying to find software changes within the letter of the emission laws that customers will not feel as detrimental to their driving habits. I wonder if we will see an "updated" set of thermostats with different opening temps/rates than is now used?

Well, after reading the "F U Ford" post on the Ford message board on Friday, I ran a copy of the TSB. Sat around this week-end going over the SLTS times and what is being required by Ford. The first glaring example is the head gasket time in the TSB pays .2 less than the SLTS. It also does not have an "add" for the .4 allowance for dual alts. The head gasket time for E-Series is .5 light, and also no allowance for dual alts. Ford labor times are like a Las Vegas casino, the odds always favor the house. Looking at the TSB time for the EGR/oil cooler operation, you will see it pays the same to replace the EGR cooler as the oil cooler. Now it takes a bit more time to replace an oil cooler than an EGR cooler in my experience. Especially time to clean around the oil cooler so as not to introduce debris into the reservoir. The testing for EGR cooler leakage is fine, but really, if you replace an oil cooler for failure, are you going to re-use the EGR cooler? It pressure tests fine today, but what about next week? How weakened and close to failure is it from the oil cooler being restricted? My reality, at the edge of the oil patch, differs from pure repair strategies developed in a test facility. I think those techs that have dealers that are tight on M-time will be improved by this TSB. They may finaly be paid for what they always had been doing, but the dealers fear of the numbers or audits, kept them from using M-time to reimburse the techs. Those techs that are at dealers that have used M-time to cover their competent, but slower, techs may find their people leave over it. Losing factory trained techs, to other fields or the aftermarket, will not help Ford or the FLM vehicle owners. This TSB may also run off the pencil whippers and time clockers that have been gaming the system. When they find the times are the times these cheaters may either step the cheating up in other areas until the dealer cannot bear it and takes action or not live with the pay cut and leave. Good riddance, either way. My own feeling from reading forums and talking to other dealer techs is that the labor time paid usually determines the repair more so than the published procedure. Ford has developed some interesting steps to isolate failed components, but in the end, will the: if eats coolant, replace the EGR cooler and oil cooler; if it pushes coolant do the head gaskets mantra, hold? For years techs have been told to not remove cabs, but the techs still did. The techs are told not to use anything but plastic scrapers to clean surfaces but have thumbed their noses at that, also. What Ford wants and what Ford gets will remain to be seen. I think every Ford diesel tech needs to take the time to go through this TSB and the SLTS and disect it as I did. This TSB will be heavily utilized, so understand it as deeply as possible. I have learned over the years to never play a game you do not understand the rules to. Empower yourself.

This afternoon I had one with the code at only 1000 miles. The MIL light went out itself on the drive to the dealership, so I only had the memory code. Customer told the S/A he thought it probably gelled cause it was so cold(2 degrees on the IAT). I cleared the code and the customer was going to use the Ford additive and drive it. See if it acts up again before pursueing it further, I guess.

Just had one this morning. Turbo farting on decel and oil smell. Tail pipe oil soaked from center seal failure. Parts were 4 days out, so management opted for a turbo(which we had on hand).

26 years so far at three different dealerships. 19 years at this dealer, so far. Been wrenching the whole time, but for one year as a shop foreman.

Show'em TSB 5-24-08. The last NOTE: is of most importance.

I have done super charged T-Birds in the past this way. Works very well. Just make sure you have the larger sized inverted torx bits (E18/E20?) for the K-frame bolts. I once lifted the body on a Crown Vic to do an engine job and it took awhile. Sure did learn alot about other system mountings and wire/hydralic routings that came in handy down the line. So, it was not a total loss.

I seem to remember using a 24mm socket on the drivers side bolts and a 21 mm socket on those on the passenger side. It's been awhile since I did a excursion,though.

My concern is some techs have found the HPFP is damaged and the vehicle is a no start or fails soon after the wire repair. I just hate doing things twice when an "over repair" would be the better choice.

I certainly do not pass up any customer pay work, that's for sure. But if those owners that have warranty repairs keep getting brushed to the back of the line, will we continue to cultivate retail customers of them? We have a couple fleets that have gone to other makes, not because of our failing to repair, but the down time. They gave us glowing report cards then and bring us the other brands for their maintenance now. I am not bashing, because in a way we play the hand we are dealt. I only worry that some moves we make in order to survive in the short term will have repercussions further down the line.

Keith, there may be upsells to be had, but, do you have the spare time? After reading your postings on the 6.4l engine taking nearly three weeks to get into your stall, you sound like upselling will only push you further back on what is already on your plate. If you do upsell the work, do you get it? Or does it go to another tech because management can't take you off your current job and the job will be lost if they ask to wait until you are freed up? Just wondering if your situation mirrors mine.

We are upselling the aftermarket winter fronts that have two flaps that can be opened and held by velcro strips. This brand just has snaps that hold it to the grill face and also has a bug screen for summer monthes. The Ford winter fronts I don't like either after I read the warning. I will not install the Ford shield as a service, because I feel the customer needs to know how to do it comfortably. If they find it too much of a chore to install, you know they aren't going to remove it when they should.

We have just had a rash of P0196 codes being set because of T-stats this last week. We also upsell a winter front to help them warm up faster. If you look at the Freeze Frame data they all set at the 10 minute run time mark around 1100 RPM/TP at 0%/VSS 0. Seems people fire'em off and go back inside to let the truck warm up and it takes too long. I wouldn't be surprised to see a re-flash happen here, too.

Greg, if Hotline didn't already tell you, the PID list they want is located under the Powerstroke tab on PTS. Go to Diesel Repair Aids, the heading is 6.0 Diesel Diagnosis/Repair Aids and you will see listed: PID's to select when making WDS/VDR recordings. I always use this list when I record and have never found it to slow down the rate enough to miss intermittant events yet. Keeps the Hotline from getting their panties in a twist, too.

My only thought is, how many years have to go by before Ford decides to simply install the kit on each vehicle at the factory to fix a known concern appearing in the field? Almost 10 years of coverage on this TSB. Good lord! We still get oil field rigs in that the fuel tank looks like a crushed in pop can from the vacuum build-up. Anytime we can, due to a repair or easy access we add the kit components to these rigs. Ford not adding the kit at the factory ends up with higher warranty numbers at the dealer end and we take the flack. Not good.