Keith Browning

Had a tow-in today with P242D but this truck would start only to de-rate after 15 seconds with the MIL flashing. EGT 1-3 was open too. I borrowed a sensor from another truck, reprogrammed the ECM and IC - seems okay! Did you have a bunch of other codes like ICP low or EGR concerns? I did but all tests passed so for now I am dismissing them. Will road test more when I get the new sensor. By the way, PID display showed EGT 1-3 = 4.89v & 1830 degrees!

Well, I think my dealer sold a dozen or so and there are a couple from other dealers that have come to me for some reason. I haven't had too many problems or at the very least, any one truck that is problematic. Lets see if I can remember what I HAVE seen above and beyond the recalls: 4 A/C compressors/clutches that were seized 2 EGR coolers 2 injector inlet o-ring failures 1 injector spool valve nut lost in the pan (recovered) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whew.gif 1 IPR harness failure due to corrosion (not recalled) 1 chafed main harness 2 wheel speed sensors 1 leaking windshield and a handful of stupid stuff caused by the customers or body installers. Sitting here thinking about this I realize it has been 3 or 4 months since I have seen an LCF!

Good point on the 10b recommended procedure but I wonder why that is not expressly written on the chart? I have mixed feelings about this. It is important to verify a concern AND know the conditions when a driveability concern exists or a code is set. Say you are diagnosing a low power concern while pulling hills only. Your diagnostics show that fuel pressure is dropping below 30PSI and only while pulling hills. Fuel pressure remains in spec during the rest of the road test and in the shop. Is performing test 10b in the shop at full throttle in park going to show a developing restriction? No. It wont. Suppose there is debris in the tank that stirs up and clogs the pick up screen only after driving? See where I am going with this? I want to see if pump inlet restriction is rising WHILE fuel pressure is dropping. I don't see how this could be any different that having to test fuel pressure under a load. I am not arguing the recommended test procedure but this is where we as technicians have to question what we are being asked to test and why. Test 10b is fine, but I want to know more. I know that fuel demand will increase with engine speed AND LOAD therefore I will perform the test but I am going to "kick it up a notch" and also perform the test under the conditions when it really counts. Personally, I'll check fuel pressure and inlet restriction before opening the shop door because many times something is so obvious I don't even need to perform road test. Hmmm, could this be because many drivers will push the truck until it wont go? You bet and I just finished replacing an entire set of injectors because of a clogged fuel filter just under 14,000 miles. The customer paid for it but somehow got Ford to contribute $1000 to the repair. I don't understand how but at least he didn't take the truck, replace the filters and go to a different dealer. There are some honest people out there!?!?! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/surprise.gif Mental note: Ask a HotLine engineer about this the next time I am on the line with one...

Quote: Will Ford pay to remove the oil pans and the oil pump just to find the bits and pieces? Yes. But you had better have the pieces to prove it.

Well then why not simply increase the size of the pick up to allow for a finer screen? The screen does not have to be a 10 micron filter but if it can prevent a bad situation from becoming catastrophic then it makes sense to me. Looking at the size of the pan the end of the pick up could be four times larger. Am I thinking to far outside of the box?

OUTSTANDING! Another five head banger salute! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Gary that is one of the best posts I have ever read and it is very constructive to get everyone involved to find a solution. I have had random discussions concerning some of these TSB's and getting paid to properly repair the customers trucks and get properly paid for doing so. I will be requesting such a meeting at my dealer.

Your gage is fine, I use the same set though I admit to verifying its accuracy. What you are up against has to be one of the more common problems we see as far as driveability and fuel system related damage. These trucks have problems with the fuel tanks in that the ones with the laminated coating are known to be susceptible to peeling caused by the use of bio-fuels and who knows what else. More commonly, the use of the vehicle can play a big part in fuel system cleanliness and filter life. We are seeing more and more trucks that get more dirt in the tank in fewer miles than ever before. I am seeing trucks with less than 15K clogging filters, most of these are stake and dump bodies used by landscapers, masons and contractors. Possibly the two most crucial tests we need to perform are the electric fuel pump pressure test and filter inlet restriction test. Simply checking for fuel pressure in the service bay is only sufficient for determining that you actually have fuel pressure and is only reliable for crank/no start conditions. If you have ANY driveability concerns including damaged injectors you MUST perform both of these tests at full load/full throttle to properly test the fuel system. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you will find more fuel problems by performing these tests... properly. You will likely find that you wont get far from the parking lot before a pressure drop becomes evident if one exists. I personally encourage you to take the extra minute it takes to install the inlet test adapter that came with the 6.0L service tools and connect it to the gage and run both tests at the same time!!! Knowing the results of both readings will allow you to make an immediate and accurate diagnosis. Don't be too quick to disconnect the test gages either, a quick road test to verify your repair can save you time if you missed something or made any mistakes. Hey, it happens to all of us! Be prepared to sell more fuel filters. Knowing the vehicles service history is also important. Why? If restricted filters are the root cause of any vehicle concern you need to determine if the vehicle is neglected or IF THE SERVICE INTERVAL NEEDS TO BE ADJUSTED FOR THAT CUSTOMER OR VEHICLE. I believe there was a SSM released recommending this.

Tony my first blown 6.4L arrived last week and it is locked. I am sure its a rod. I drained the oil and grabbed our boreoscope to take a look. It had very little metal in the pan, just some shavings and a couple of larger pieces that look like the lower pan sitting atop the windage tray. I cant raise the cab on my normal lift so I removed the body bolts and disconnected/unbolted everything underneath and pushed it out the door. This week I will drag the sucker around to a Rotary lift and get going on it. Maybe this one will reveal some clues.

The back ordered processor arrived last week and I got it in. We put over 100 miles on the truck this time before letting it go and without incident. I'm still not ready to fill out the hotline survey or call them back as I promised to do. I wanna be sure before calling this a fix. The first time it came aback a day later with only 35 miles on it. Can you tell I am nervous? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

I have long considered the addition of coolant filters unnecessary in general but I have been making some observations with 6.0L engines that has me rethinking this. Now I tend to notice a crusty layer in the degas bottles of 6.0L trucks that I don't seem to notice on trucks with other engines. The other day I was servicing a truck and drained the coolant noticing a brownish silt cloud mixing with the coolant as it stirred in my drain bucket which is always clean. I know I have seen this before more than a few times. My new service adviser has recently been forced to sell BG cooling system service kits with the bottle of cleaner and bottle of conditioner. If the cleaner is supposed to remove rust and scale what happens to loosened crap that remains after the suck and fill? After all, this is not a true flush mind you! here is always coolant left in the block that does not drain. Where does that end up? So this leads to some questions like what is this brown crud and does this have any affect on the engine... like say on the oil and EGR coolers? I have heard that adding stop leak can cause this. I have heard that the gold coolant causes this. I have read topics on public forums that guys find sand and metal debris in their coolant filters so perhaps its not such an unnecessary concept. After all, some larger trucks and diesels use them. Comments? Opinions?

Funny yes but its quite sad in my opinion because the screen is SUPPOSED to protect the pump from that kind of junk. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

Thanx Brad! I may have to post that on the front page. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

Yes but it required removing the oil pans which I am thinking is NOT the answer you want to hear. Unfortunately retrieving these parts/pieces is important as the oil pick-up screen is course enough to allow rocks, sticks and even small children through which can do a number on the lube oil pump and front cover. You would be amazed at what can pass through the screen. I had a rocker failure that spewed the needle bearings into the crankcase which were sucked into the inlet and destroyed the pump and even PASSED the pump getting into the regulator. I did get lucky with one truck in that it was a 4.5L in an LCF - the pan is completely accessible. I am sure others have a story or two to tell.

I did a little digging and found the original TSB for this. If you are going to attempt this with IDS let us know how you make out with it! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif tsb03-21-10.pdf

WOW! I thought that all of those would have been converted long ago! The early trucks had both connectors because when they were built EEC-5 was just coming out. As a matter of fact I think that at the time the only EEC-5 vehicle Ford had was the just released new model called the Windstar... ooooooh! My thinking was that the Power Stroke had been in development for some time as an EEC-4 vehicle it wasn't feasible to change it before production but perhaps they were able to wire it up with the DLC. Long story short, the first trucks could be reprogrammed to EEC-5 using SBDS after which the EEC-4 connector under the hood became useless. The new program included improved diagnostics and PID information available through the DLC. Ricksters idea should work but I have never run into this situation. I still had a working SBDS when any of these first trucks came in.

Dwayne? How did your noggin heal up? Okay? I'll bet that's gonna leave a mark and I hope you don't loose too much hair as you age. But just think of all the cool stories you can make up to tell your grandchildren! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/surprise.gif

Do you know if Ford is going to be releasing this new part?

Now that I am at work... connector C1246, two pin, green with three locater tabs, Circuits 35 & 1275 RD/LG & WT/RD Motorcraft # WPT410 . Ford # 3U2Z-14S411-BA

Do you guys have the Motorcraft electrical connector catalog? I might have one if you become desperate for it. I save connectors from discarded harnesses like a squirrel hides nuts for winter.

The TSB states "Use SLTS Operations If Available; Claim Additional Diagnosis Or Labor Performed As Actual Time" so my assumption is that you should not take a bad beating on this job. It also depends on the technician due to different ability and speed. I am not a particularly fast tech and I take it in the cheeks EVERY time I get one of these so I feel your pain but 15.3 for what you explained is light if you include diagnosis and other related repairs.

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Worked well, the leak is fixed. It appears as though someone has recently replaced the line, all of the return hoses and injector collars along with the injectors. I put the old fitting in a vice and installed the line which I could rock and twist with the nut tight! I didn't see anything wrong with the fitting but there had to be something.

Quote: Just think, someone will be making money from this, just not us. Exaaaaactly!

I think I have an ideal pay plan for a tech or working foreman like myself. The details can be adjusted to the situation and the technicians abilities, skill, training... Technically I am flat rate but I have a generous guarantee that I can live on and most of the time I do. But, I still try to be productive as long as the work is there and I have hourly rate increases for meeting several levels of hours produced. I have been told many times that I am to keep doing the best work that I can, fix the problems and worry about hours second. (but try to make hours son) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I still have an incentive and I still try despite the CONSTANT stream of really shitty work. On top of that I get a weekly bonus for my time as a team leader/foreman to dispatch and track work, help and teach my techs. It works for both the company and myself and I guess I am doing the right thing... I started with this company when I graduated high school, 21 years ago! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/icon_crazy.gif Am I crazy? Maybe but I am surviving. With no opportunities for a change and a stay at home wife with two young children it looks like I am going to be there for a little while longer.

Yeah it came today Larry, I had to wait until I got home to know. Thanks. Now, could ya ask your fuel guy if there are any surprises behind that fitting? It is for the #2 cylinder which is on the bottom. Keeping things clean is not a problem but flying or rolling parts could be if I don't know about them. Pump on or should I take it off? Torque value or just snug it up?