Keith Browning

Our second truck that was ordered special for a customer arrived this morning. It's a nice red F450 Dually, 6.4L and loaded. I did the PDI and it is being delivered this evening. And that ain't no rumor! But if something happens between now and whenever, I'll let ya know.

I don't think I would call them weak but I did notice the de-rated specs on the picture of the Certification labels. I though that was odd and meant to ask the instructor about that but i forgot with all that was going on. Was this an explanation you heard in training? How did you like the classroom course? I was expecting more hands on with the engine but I guess its pretty much the same old stuff as the 6.0L once you get into it. Looking back, the diagnostic scenarios were a better use of the time I suppose.

Man, you guys are buried in crap! Things calmed down for me lately but we did just have a repeat EGR cooler failure come in. Unfortunately, the cooler leaked so bad the engine could not be filled and run to test for a restricted oil cooler. Long story short, this truck was way out of warranty and we recommended to the customer that he replace it along with the EGR cooler. He agreed with our recommendation but without having any diagnostic results to support that recommendation. Do you guys think it was a wise decision?

We got one in over night! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Now I will get to drive one of these things!!! I'm just waiting for the pre-delivery repair order and keys to cross my hands... and hopefully I will be able to pry it away from the commercial sales coordinator and all the oglers.

Oh. My bad. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sleep.gif

Unfortunately, many of those people end up replacing the filter and leaving... only to show up at another dealer when their fuel pressure is good and the injectors get replaced under warranty.

Oil filter is in the same location on the engine. My question is are the prices on these items still out of whack? It's hard to get people to come back to the dealer when they are bargain hunting at Wal-Mart.

Did you take note of the size of the radiator! That thing is HUGE!!! When they said they increased the cooling capacity they weren't kidding.

Maybe there will be a jolly red indicator that lights up on the IDS screen telling us to call the Hot Line and upload something.

I was told it IS true! But you are correct about it not being retrievable at the dealer level. Then again, just how much do you think "they" are going to tell us? Too bad. It would be nice to know though.

Okay, I have completed the 6.4L classroom training and I thought I would share some of my notes and observations. If you don't attend the training any time soon you will appreciate this and anyone that has something to add please do! SOME OF THESE ITEMS ARE NOT IN ANY MANUALS OR TRAINING MEDIA: The EGR valve makes a high pitched humming noise with the key on, engine off. (On edit: This was on our training vehicle, have yet to hear it at the dealer.) When removing the glow plugs in the 6.4L, USE the sleeve tool (303-1265) to prevent dropping the glow plugs into the cylinder head. If you drop one, the valve cover will have to come off to retrieve it. (On edit: Better explanation below) If you are installing the High Pressure Fuel Pump gear, make note that there is a very slight taper and the gear only goes on one way. REFERENCE THE SHOP MANUAL for proper orientation or the gear will be damaged. You will also need a torque adapter from Snap-On, tool # FRDHM15 to torque the fastener. The ECM will de-rate the engine (reduce power) if the fuel temperature sensor (FTS) reads 194ºF or higher. The same may occur if other temperature sensors indicate high engine temperatures. If you are monitoring the EGRT_A PID while the engine is cold the value will read 140ºF until the EGR Temperature exceeds that reading. Don't let that fool you if you are diagnosing the EGR system. The fuel injectors work on 80 Volts DC with 200 Volts flyback voltage. Think GREEN. What are fuel supply banjo bolts with check valves on the 6.0L are now fuel return line banjo bolts WITHOUT check valves. The 6.4L banjo bolts are identified with green paint. Good to remember when ordering parts! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Think GREEN again. The glow plugs on the 6.4L are physically similar to 6.0L glow plugs. The 6.4L glow plugs are identified by a green stripe and pull 5 Amps where the 6.0L glow plugs are identified by a black stripe and pull 10 Amps. They are not interchangeable!!! While the 6.0L was more about pressures, the 6.4L is more about TEMPERATURES as there are so many temp sensors on the engine and exhaust after treatment systems. The exhaust temperature sensors are different than the other sensors. Most temp sensors are "thermistors" and as the temperature increases, the voltage signal decreases. The exhaust temp sensors are called "Resistance Temperature Detectors" or RTDs. RTD signals increase voltage as temperature increases. This is something to remember when reading PIDs. I discovered a potential for confusion! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif Below is a picture of two metal exhaust hose tips. Apparently, using rubber hoses right on the tip causes them to burn and stink up the shop. I don't have a tool number or manufacturer to recommend but this looked like something your shop will be better off having! I took a picture of the EGR valve puller so I would remember how to assemble the nine pieces that make the tool work. It is definitely a contraption but it works. Using a pry-bar on this valve will likely cause damage but I am sure someone is going to find an alternate method. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif The instructor showed us this nut that retains the screw shaft in the EGR puller. You will see it when you look at the tool. Before using the puller, remove the nut, apply thread locker to the threads and reinstall the nut before using it. Apparently the nut will back off during the first use... happened to him in the instructor training and then at the training center. Sorry about the quality of the pictures... apparently cell phone cameras don't take great pictures. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif

Ford Posts Its Worst Loss in History Thu Jan 25, 1:00 PM DEARBORN, Mich. - Ford Motor Co. lost $5.8 billion in the fourth quarter amid slumping sales and huge restructuring costs, pushing the automaker's deficit for the year to $12.7 billion, the largest in its 103-year history. The annual loss reported Thursday surpassed its previous record of $7.39 billion set in 1992. The 2006 loss amounted to $6.79 per share versus a profit of $1.44 billion, or 77 cents a share, in 2005. It was far from the largest quarterly or annual corporate loss on record - Time Warner Inc. reported a $97.2 billion loss in 2002, largely due to new accounting rules about how to value assets. Ford could not rely on accounting rules, however, to explain its staggering total, which represented a loss of $4,380 on each car or truck it sold in 2006. Ford's loss also fell short of the biggest annual deficit in the auto industry. General Motors Corp. lost $23.4 billion in 1992. Dearborn-based Ford predicted more losses for this year and in 2008, but said its restructuring plan is on track to return to profitability in 2009. "We know where we are. We are dealing with it and we're on plan," Chief Executive Officer Alan Mulally told reporters and industry analysts in a conference call. The company, which lost $6 billion on North American operations alone, said it expects to burn up $10 billion in cash to run its business through 2009 and spend another $7 billion to invest in new products. The fourth-quarter loss was the worst final-quarter loss in Ford's history and its second-worst quarterly performance. Ford lost $6.7 billion in the first quarter of 1992, due mainly to accounting rule changes on health care liabilities. Excluding special items, Ford lost $1.50 per share in all of 2006, worse than Wall Street predicted. Fourteen analysts polled by Thomson Financial expected a loss of $1.35 per share for the year, excluding special items. Its shares rose 16 cents, or 1.8 percent, to $8.36 in midday trading on the New York Stock Exchange. Ford, faced with increasing competition from overseas rivals such as Toyota Motor Corp., is banking on the restructuring to pull it through the next two years. Mulally, hired from aerospace giant Boeing Co., is leading the drastic efforts to turn around the company. Ford mortgaged its assets to borrow up to $23.4 billion to pay for the restructuring and to cover losses expected until 2009. About 38,000 hourly workers have signed up for buyout or early retirement offers, and Ford plans to cut its white-collar work force by 14,000 with buyouts and early retirements. Chief Financial Officer Don Leclair said Ford expects favorable results from its automotive business in 2007. But because of interest on its debt "total automotive results are expected to be worse in 2007 than in 2006," he said. Leclair said the company finished 2006 with $33.9 billion in cash available for its automotive operations, including $12 billion that it borrowed in December. He said the company could tap into nearly all of that cash to fund its operations. The company is on target, though, to achieve its goal of cutting $5 billion in annual costs by 2008 compared with 2005 levels, Leclair said. Mulally said Ford will continue to review its costs, looking for more cuts as it gains efficiencies from building more cars worldwide on fewer frames in more efficient factories. "The more I review the details, the more confident I am that we can continue that cost reduction through 2009 and beyond," he said. Ford, which relied on truck and sport utility vehicle sales for much of its profits, was hurt last year as $3 per gallon gasoline sent consumers fleeing to smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles. Ford has seen its market share deteriorate in recent years. At the same time, Toyota has seen its U.S. sales rise, beating Ford out for the No. 2 sales spot in July and November. Ford has rolled out or will introduce several new or updated products during 2007, including the Edge crossover, new F-series Super Duty pickups, a redesigned Focus small car and an updated Five Hundred larger sedan. But many analysts are skeptical that the products are strong enough to turn the company around. Mulally said earlier this month that Ford's restructuring plan remained "absolutely the right thing to do." Ford said that special items associated with restructuring costs totaled $9.9 billion for the year as the company continues efforts to shrink itself to match reduced demand for its cars and trucks. Sales for the fourth-quarter fell to $40.3 billion from $46.3 billion a year ago, while annual sales dropped to $160.1 billion from $176.9 billion in 2005.

Fred, rust is an unfortunate symptom of working on cars and trucks in New Jersey. The salt on the roads in winter can turn our cars into giant rolling salt licks! My dealer has seen several late 90's trucks with the lines actually rotted through and leaking. Two just this past fall if I recall correctly... this along with the odd rotted out oil pan or two.

Gary, I hear what you are saying. This purchase is my own choice because I am tired of not always having the IDS available when I need it or another tech is buggin me for it while I am using it. I am aggravated beyond words some times. My dealer SHOULD have more scan tools... but times are hard you know? Hmmm, my manager told me he thought he should work something out and do something about the bill for the VCM. I clearly stated that I asked him to order it for me with the intention that I am buying the tool and it WILL BE MY personal property. He understood, still wants to pay for it. So why don't they just buy more scan tools for the shop? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif At least I benefit either way so I am not going to question it.

Hey man! Haven't you heard? Ford is in deep financial trouble because of bad management and poor quality product. Don't feel bad about this though, those five !@#!?$! bolts are going to make a big difference! Seems like any claim over a grand is subject to penny pinching and it's up to YOU to prove them wrong when they have no basis other than cost cutting when it comes to cannibalized warranty claims. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif

...and with the addition of the Napa gasket part number for the 7.3 I would say we covered this one!

I went t look it up and you beat me to it! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif 5C4Z-9448-A

SCORE! Got me one today!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif It's just nicer to have one in print, you know? Makes for good bathroom reading... eeeeeeasy now, some of us are maried with youngins. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif

I started the course today. Nothing too exciting yet since we have seen a lot of the information already. I did remove the turbo assembly and partially disassemble it. I also got to hear it run for several hours during our work station sessions. DEFINITELY quieter and that sharp cracking wound is gone. No "BRRRAAAP" when starting either. The engine in the truck looks a lot different in person. Oh, my day started out with the brakes failing on my Taurus which made an hour and a half late. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif At least I didn't hit anything or anyONE. I had to wait for a flatbed to take me and my car to the dealer where they gave me a new Freestyle to drive. That CVT trans is weird!

Actually, the chat room(s) are always available. Look up. The link is in the menu next to the PhotoPost link /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif The chat client is actually a Flash script that requires no set up on the user's part. Just click the link, wait for it to load and log on with your screen name that appears next to your posts. No password is required. The "Poll" is just to get an idea of a preferred time to suggest a chat session to try it out and see how it well it works but you can use it any time! I would have no objections to anyone posting a time or setting up a chat for what ever topic...

Quote: On a seperate note, what became of the chat room suggestion? Just waiting for a few more votes for a day and time to trickle in. I'll post something this week so we can test it out.

After waiting about a year and now discovering the PDS has reduced functionality with the new ECMs I finally decided to turn the Lap Top in my toolbox into my own IDS. Since the RTTP web site is not accepting orders I asked my manager to see if he could order one through the dealership. We can and he did. So now I wait. Rotunda stated that the order could take three weeks, or three months. They just place the order and they get filled whenever production and stock levels allow them to be delivered. So now I wait. Did I mention that? But at least I am now waiting for my order! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

No. You didn't. This is exactly the kind of discussion and ideas that should have been exchanged from the beginning. You have to remember, many of the technicians and service personnel for that matter, are still quite clueless. That is why I am floored that we already have training and product materials available to us before the trucks have arrived at the dealers. I know someone here has already had classroom instruction and I am going this week. Pinch me! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif But I think we are all holding our breath with this new engine and God forbid, if there be any problems, opening up the lines of communication will be essential for minimizing their effect.

Unfortunately, there are many opinions, mostly based on personal experiences, anger/frustration and ignorance. We know why owners are unhappy and the Internet provides them an easy to access pulpit from witch to express anger and display ignorance. As for technicians, dealers and Ford employed professionals almost the same can be said but the sad thing is, there is no excuse for it because WE are in this together. At the heart of it, I cite education and communication the biggest failure of all. From the beginning of the 6.0L launch most if not all of us in the field were untrained and without adequate support for what was about to happen. Trapped between the manufacturer and the consumer WE were left without answers and we took a beating both financially and from our customers who only wanted straight answers and for their trucks to be right. We all will continue to feel the pain from that for some time to come. I believe the above statement to be 100% truthful and the product shows it. Most importantly, I for one, have a lot of experience, training and now, backing from the manufacturer in a technical sense concerning the 6.0L that I consider outstanding. However, almost daily I am put in a position to educate and inform a customer or fellow technician and present things in a generally positive manner and diffuse a bad situation before it arises; it is very difficult to do that standing next to a truck with it's cab in the air. I for one have felt insulted and belittled every time I had no answer for a pissed off customer... every time I log onto the many web forums I frequent... can't explain why a truck was towed in for the third time in 6-months... Websites like FRT, TDS, FTE, SDD, TDG and so on are full of ignorance and anger. Try posting anything about this topic on the FMC Dealer Message Boards and see how quickly the post gets pulled and you get banned! At least here, someone like yourself can make a post like you did and at least in my opinion, it means something and I thank you for posting it. One of the hardest things a person has to to is look at themselves and determine what role they are going to play and how well they are going to play that role. You can sit around and continue to whine, gripe and project the blame onto someone else - or - you can pick yourself up, educate yourself and make the effort to succeed. With the resources and lessons learned behind us, we now have no excuse for failure other than not trying. Cetane, I don't think I can say anything to help you not feel insulted by some of our posts but our fellow members are free to speak their minds and I certainly encourage that. You are in a position to help us understand things and shed light on what is going on despite being limited as to what you can share. For what it's worth, you are not alone and are in very good company! I don't know what your position in all of this actually is, but, if you are personally involved in the product improvement, my hat is off to ya. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

Nice find? Or, are those your shots? This looks like the plug in question. As for using any 'ol o-ring I guess it all depends on whether the material can hold up to contact with oil and what kind of pressure we're talking about. If there isn't high pressure behind this, then any o-ring would do... ?