Keith Browning

No big deal, it's a 2002 F-250 with a 7.3L DIT. ICP sensor is leaking oil. The sensor was replaced with a F6TZ-9F838-A part number. The truck left and came back surging and stalling, the tech is not sure what to do. I Look at it, a bunch of ICP codes, checked the sensor for biased readings and the KOEO value was 0.60 Volts! I looked at the sensor and he installed a 6.0L sensor... by looks. The Ford parts hotline says the number is good. The tech hotline says its good. It is the wrong sensor. Anyone run into this? I ordered another in hopes that it was labeled or packed wrong.

This is an area of aftermarket crap that has caused headaches for me my entire career. From damage caused during installation to poor quality products, security systems are the number one losers in my book. I am curious as to what the rest of you have come across over the years. Good stuff and bad. Any stories? Two I DO like are the Lo-Jack systems and this fairly new one, The Cyclops. What I really like about this is that all it does is cut power to any module powered by a relay by replacing the relay with an electronic module stuffed inside a relay cover. No cutting harnesses and extra wiring. Since it looks identical to a relay it's virtually undetectable. I think that's pretty slick! http://www.emergingent.com/retail/cyclops/index.html

If you guys are unaware of TSB 06-4-12 then go to FMCDealer and print it out! It is a comprehensive guide on Coking Deposit Diagnostics and Service Tips for the 6.0L Diesel. In most cases, it will help find the root cause of excessive coking leading to failures of the Turbocharger and EGR valves. I have been able to determine poor fuel quality and excessive idling as the root cause. And don't be afraid to perform this one - it pays STRAIGHT TIME. Another cause of sticking turbos is long periods of non-use. If a "clean" turbo sits with moisture in the system, surface rust can form in the housing causing the unison ring to stick. Sometimes a tap with a hammer and an active road test will cure those.

Most truck and diesel work is performed at higher rates here on the East coast and I am sure that carries through the rest of the country. You are not ripping the customer off. My dealer uses a variable labor rate. This keeps things like tires, oil changes and general servicing competitive because we charge a lower labor rate for those items. Engine diagnostics and repairs that require additional training by the technicians and expensive equipment like our special service tools, IDS and WDS are worth a higher rate. I am a full out diesel and truck technician. I EXPECT a higher labor rate than a Yugo technician would get. I demand it. Customers should expect to pay a little more to have their diesels properly repaired. Someone who can afford a $45,000 truck can usually afford to pay the right people a little more for their training, knowledge and experience. Business owners cant afford not to as down time will cost them much more. Your story about the injectors and the clip supports what I am saying. After that customer's experience I'll be willing to bet he would gladly pay you and your dealer a little more to begin with. In the long run it definitely would have saved him a lot of money!

The following "uncontrolled" documents are published on the Power Stroke Central web site but for the sake of our own discussions I have a copy of them here on the DTS. I have found them VERY useful in understanding this recall and in diagnosing issues that have come up after performing the re-calibration. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif Please do not post links to these files on other web sites. I will know if they are and I will have to take them down. Inferred EBP Functional Overview Inferred EBP PID List Technician Q & A for pre-release HL1

The very idea that you need to understand how these engines work is the key. The PCED is fine for basic diagnostics. I agree that it can easily lead you in the wrong direction however I have learned THAT is usually the result of an improperly performed or misinterpreted test. Diesel engines have always been all about pressure and timing and the small window of time the fuel allows us to work with. While all of the advances in electronics have enabled engineers to build powerful and efficient engines the very same advances have created another entire set of problems. Until you can recognize both the basic theory of operation and the control systems that manipulate them, you will likely have difficulties in diagnosing many concerns. Recognizing the difference between the two and understanding their relationship is crucial. Eventually you will HAVE develop your own intuition. If you have an instructor that in some way gets you to think about what you are doing and why rather than just to obey the written instructions, then you have truly been educated. The book should not only guide you but it should also provoke thought.

Do you perform many conversions? I have visited your web site in the past and I have to admit its an interesting concept. If you had gotten your hands on a 2006 Super duty and put a Cummins in it you could have had a lot of fun this year pretending to be driving a "test mule." Leak some spy photos and just watch the gossip explode on the Internet! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif Even I can get a little devilish from time to time! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

I was asking Bruce but knowing what you are using may prove helpful. I was under the impression that Ford was not going to offer support on any system but the one they sell though they state it should work on most PC's with Window's XP Pro. I do hope Bruce gets his working. Some of us in the shop are considering upgrading our own PC's to XP Pro and just use our own computers. This reminds me of my other problem... MD Truck. I should try loading it onto the IDS computer and see if it works. I was told that H6 was supposed to be installable on any PC as a stand alone program. Not true. I tried on my new Dell and the installation halted stating it was only to be installed on a WDS machine! So what are we supposed to do when our WDS coughs it's last TESTMAN error and fails to boot or something? Sublet our LCF's and Medium Duty F Series to an International dealer?

Jim we sell tons of those. My dealer sold over 750 trucks last year, most of them with diesel engines. Many have vocational bodies on them but a good number are are F350 Lariat's with lots of chrome and leather interiors. There are a few that tow a 5th wheel and some what actually use the hitch receiver but most are just toys. To each his own I suppose but those are the guys that are usually the problem customers. I live and work in one of the wealthiest areas of the country and apparently some have nothing better to do with their cash. Don't know whether I am jealous or angry. Like I mentioned, one has a stuck turbo and wont get out of it's own way. Customer never noticed! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Another has a cracked y-pipe and the truck also lacks power, smells really bad and he too never complained. "I thought that was normal." /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif I guess their throttles never make it past 50%. They should have bought a F150! I look at it as these recalls just bring me more business! A few more turbos or EGR valves and a whole lot more front end work, brake jobs and service work.

Just to get this straight, are you using the Ford supplied Panasonic Tough Book or your own PC/Notebook?

Yeah, we picked that up after the fact. I feel bad for the guy wasting all that time. It reinforces looking at all of the details like SPLICES! I understand that the DRL will turn off the lights with the parking brake applied as a feature of the DRL. I just don't understand why the manual doesn't have the technician check the DRL while diagnosing the P-Brake warning indicator. I have no problem with one system affecting another but let's be more thorough with the diagnostics. Anyway, this is a good "heads-up" worth mentioning.

I'll bet you are! I hate getting new toys that don't work!

This is a strange one! A 2004 F350 comes in with the red brake warning lamp on. Follow the diagnostics in the service manual and find NO fault. Remove the wire/pin for the p-brake switch from the cluster, the light goes out. Reran all tests in the manual. No problem found. Checked a 2003 wiring diagram. Same. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif For some reason, the Daytime Running Lamp power circuit is spliced into the brake warning lamp circuit. There is no mention of this in the Workshop manual or the wiring diagram. I had the tech check all fuses and grounds before we were to call the HotLine. Found F2.27 open. Replaced fuse, DRL is working and has not blown the fuse again. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

Apparently the new calibration does not allow for much in the way of anything not working. Yes, I am doing more turbos now and it's alarming in a way. I have been boasting that I have replaced so few turbos that I sincerely hope that I have not been missing the obvious! I actually blame the customers. Most of these trucks have a lack of power or some driveability issue that the customers are NOT COMPLAINING about! I either perform the 06E17 flash and get a check engine light or I road test them and they can't get out of their own way! Repair orders only have the two recalls on them... not a single performance complaint. I am also picking up more EGR faults and a turbo y-pipe leak. (heard that one coming) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Bruce, Did you actually buy the IDS set-up? The software had the program/device driver you need for it to work. It is similar to Microsoft Active Sync. Anyway, we thought ours was not working because it was not lighting up. For your PC to recognize the VCM it needs to power up. Plug the DLC cable into a vehicle. We felt like idiots. It started lighting up, the computer recognized the new hardware and it all started working.

Don't forget guys that "they" make ultra-violet tracer dye for coolant too! If you are successful in tracking down oil leaks you should have good luck diagnosing coolant leaks as well. Be advised that the dye will turn the Ford gold coolant a nice vibrant green color just like regular antifreeze. I use Tracer Line products .

After sitting in the service manager's office for a month our IDS was finally removed from the boxes and placed in the roll cart that finally arrived. The roll cart/cabinet is nice. It's shiny and red and all of the "stuff" fits inside it. It will not fit in between our service lifts. No instructions on setup other than a few random pieces of paper. Which disk to use first? We just began inserting them and loading whatever was on them. No big deal. I don't know if there is/was a choice in PCs or notebooks but we have a nice new Panasonic Tough Book. The keyboard is very small. There are men in our shop with large fingers that will likely press several buttons at once. I didn't know that any computer company still made a 10" computer screen. What a joke. I am mostly disappointed with the size of the display. I have good eyes. This display is too small for a primary top of the line proprietary diagnostic system. We are already concerned with securing the system to begin with. Our first thought was to call DELL and order a real computer and lock it in the case and screw down a viewable monitor to the top. I am still praying the Tool Fairy will bring me my own PDS. My dealer will most likely never buy any. I usually try to avoid making negative posts but I wanted to share my first impression of the IDS. Perhaps it's performance will sway me as I begin to use it but for the most part it is a cumbersome and overpriced replacement for the WDS. ... I will share my impressions again in a few weeks when I have given it an honest shakedown and fair chance. All of us at my dealer that have now seen it are a little disappointed. Anybody else have an opinion? Good or bad?

You did not mention whether coolant is blowing out of the de-gas bottle. My experience with unexplained coolant loss/usage has always ended up being the EGR cooler... so far. Typically there are other detectable clues to this, smoke/steam during warm-up, coolant stains or wetness at the right manifold particularly near the #8 and #6 cylinders respectively. I would recommend that you start by reading TSB 06-3-8 and begin the procedure.

Well, the truck I performed 06E17 on yesterday also has the ICP sensor replaced and it was in the rear on the pump like you said. (By the way, yet another ICP sensor coming apart and leaking oil - biased as well) Since the WDS determines what calibration goes with what update by looking at the data in the truck this might indicate a calibration may have been left off "the list?" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif FINAL EDIT: I determined that the learn process would not complete a P132B code was being set. A look at the new PIDS showed P132B_VAR showed yes. PID definition: Excessive variance detected during learn process. If you follow the pinpoint tests KA for turbo operation this truck PASSED! In the end the VGT was malfunctioning so it got the boot. New turbo, warmed up the truck, the VGT learn completed in five minutes. End of story. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

I have found that even diesel fuel if left in the cup long enough will melt styrofoam. But if the cup melts fairly rapidly it likely has gas in it. My thoughts on the fuel hydrometer is that while it's not "accurate" it can still tell you if the fuel is really bad... that is, unless the hydrometer is THAT inaccurate. Most of us don't have the luxury of sending fuel out to be analyzed much less the time involved. The customer expects eight new injectors under warranty and wants the truck by noon! Good topic guys!

I Googled it. Lots of articles on the subject. Looks like something the Military is doing... even found the equipment they use. Now, the equipment I say was stand alone service hardware. Is there such a thing as a vehicle mounted system?

I have done 2 '04's now that apparently did not get the 06e17 RECALL calibration. I like to monitor the PIDs during the relearn process and the new PIDs were not there but EBP was! And no, my WDS is up to date as I have done others that show the new PIDs. Strange.

Did CAT offer something like that? I cant remember for the life of me where I heard about this first. It was a while ago. The system only requires filter changes and regular samples that are analyzed. It sounds like a good idea but I don't know how tolerant the new fuel systems and injectors are going to be to the addition to the used oil and byproducts. Once we get going on the ultra low sulfur fuel there will be a significant reduction in acids in the engine oil and combustion chambers. I have been reading that oil change intervals can be extended safely after the change over.

Oven? Clean the exhaust filter? Hmmmm. I like the idea of the "afterburner" but do you suppose that a cleaning procedure could be developed using a scan tool like IDS? Something like a clean cycle right in the bay. Things to ponder... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif

So I mentioned that Ford finally released the instructions for the VGT relearn in the recall on the PTS web site. Did anybody read it? The information we have gathered here was right on but the revised recall instructions mention an engine temperature of 130'F . Personally I like doing this at full operating temperature.