Keith Browning

Larry, I remember back in the day, perhaps 10 years ago when the 7.3L was still rolling off the assembly line, I had one of these go bad. I couldn't even free it up clamped in a bench vise with a prybar. I vividly remember replacing just the valve. Not seeing many of these go bad, the years go by, my dealer moves to an new building, many many turnovers in the parts dept and we now use computers to look up parts. Remember microfiche catalogs? Over the years I have needed a few but I was repeatedly told that the valve was not available /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif - go sell a turbo. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif This has started many an argument. Here we are, it's 2006 and we have a new computer system and catalog being used by a "new" counter man. (our shipping and receiving/stock boy got promoted) Guess what he found when I asked him to check the number posted here? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif I guess it goes to say the parts guys have similar problems with information sources and trained employees.

I first saw them here in PWRStrokeMaster's post with the SSM#. Like I said, it's supposed to be in the recall but it's not the same. It says to road test the vehicle THEN let it idle for 5 minutes. From what I am reading, we are supposed to cycle the key twice and idle the truck for 5 minutes at operating temp - before driving it. Would the real procedure please stand up? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

We had another one today! A three hour charge and it passed the battery, the battery failed a hydrometer test and won't hold a charge overnight. Another "better idea" to keep those warranty numbers down and piss off customers. This new tester get's the "atta-boy" award in my eyes.

Jim, you're freakin scarin me! We think too much alike. I do the same with the anti seize. But this leads me to ask: Does Navistar have a patent on the design of the nuts and bolts they use? They are unforgiving when it comes to a worn socket. Mind you, I am easily amused as I am still giddy about that penetrating oil on the marmon clamp trick. I am going to have to come up with an award for ideas like that!

Would those be the part numbers for the under valve cover harnesses? The early 7.3 used two per bank and around 1998 they went to one per bank. The obvious difference is that one would have two connectors and the other will have four.

You mean this? The recall states these instructions are in attachment 2 of the recall. I did not find this. Somebody check this and make sure that I am not blind! If it's missing then a lot of techs aren't doing it! Quote: AFTER REPROGRAMMING A 2003-2004 F-SUPER DUTY OR EXCURSION 6.0L BUILT BEFORE 9/29/03 WITH WDS RELEASE B41.8 AND HIGHER OR B42.1 AND HIGHER, DRIVEABILITY SYMPTOMS MAY OCCUR IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE REPROGRAMMING IF PROPER STEPS ARE NOT FOLLOWED TO COMPLETE ADAPTIVE TURBOCHARGER LEARNING. SYMPTOMS COULD INCLUDE LACK OF POWER, SURGE, OR DTC P132B. IF THESE SYMPTOMS OCCUR, ENSURE THE FOLLOWING 3 STEPS WERE PERFORMED PER THE ARTICLE DIRECTING REPROGRAMMING: 1)USING A SCAN TOOL, RECORD AND CLEAR CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTC'S. IT IS IMPORTANT TO PERFORM THE CLEAR DTC COMMAND EVEN IF NO DTC'S ARE PRESENT. 2)PERFORM TWO KEY ON/KEY OFF CYCLES. 3)ENSURE VEHICLE IDLES AT NORMAL OPERATING TEMP (ABOVE 160F) FOR 5 MINUTES MINIMUM. IF DTC OR DRIVEABILITY ISSUES ARE STILL PRESENT AFTER FOLLOWING THESE STEPS, FOLLOW THE UPDATED ONLINE PC/ED DIAGNOSTICS.

Well, I haven't checked on any of these sources you guys mentioned mostly because doing so would take longer than I have to get the job done and out the door. You know how commercial customers can be. Any way, I have used all of the IPR connectors from all of the salvaged harnesses I kept around. I remembered that the connectors for the injectors in a 7.3L were the same so I got my hands on a UVH and cut one off for a repair. You will have to swap over the rubber seal and shave off some plastic tabs to allow the seal to seat but otherwise, it's a perfect fit!

It's a good thing you mentioned that extended torx socket. I remember using it for 6.0 injectors but I broke the tip off and never it repaired/replaced. I think it's a Snap-On so I will have to dig it up and hand it in for a new one. Here's one, we used to do a lot of rear drum brakes, you know, the 12"X3" shoes that have that crazy spring to retain them? I took an old gasket scraper and filed it flat and cut a groove in it to insert the retainer into. It may sound like a stupid thing but it made life easier for me. There is a bad side to tool recycling. Ever catch a coworker using a rear diff gauge tube as a press tool?

Thanx dude! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hitthefan.gif

Is it me or is the Internet in another lull? Sorry guys, I get paranoid when new posts slow down around here but I do see many members checking in. Is everyone busy at work? I run a three man team and have enough work for 4 or 5 guys! If that's not bad enough, I am now down one man due to a back injury. We are actually turning away work. Anyone in North Jersey area need a job? I hope you guys are busy too! What's the deal?

I glue those suckers on right when I take the cooler out with spray High Tack sealant. Keeps me from losing them too! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I finally got to try this twice so far. The first time I guess I didn't get enough penetrating oil applied but the next one I covered the clamp completely. You were right, in less than three minutes it popped but not entirely. When I went to pull the turbo the clamp just came off by hand. There have been many times I had beaten this clamp with a prybar and hammer. This is a much better solution! Thanx for sharing it with us! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif

Utilimaster utility vans built on a 2005 Ford Econoline commercial stripped chassis (built 2nd half of 2005 production) may have a defective wiper module. The windshield wipers may go on by themselves or may not stop when commanded by the switch. The system uses a non-Ford interval wiper governor module installed by UTILMASTER. This is a known concern and Utilimaster has had the modules redesigned. You may obtain a new module direct from Utilimaster. Call Margret @ 1-800-237-7806

Quote: Is there a way you can post the live recordings on here and we can pull them down ourselves and look at the whole file? My server apparently does not like the filename of the WDS archive file. If you want the recordings I can e-mail them to anyone who wants them. Send the e-mail address you want me to send it to using the Private Message function.

This truck came in with an EGR that was fully clogged and was stuck slightly open causing the 1.22V reading on EGRVP. I had to de carbon the intake and EBP tube. My intention was to graph an event with a failed or inoperative valve so I used it as a dummy valve later on. Perhaps I should have used a working valve instead? The MIL was not on but it did set a P1335. This truck came in running fine, just a check engine light on. At the time of these recordings was running like a raped ape! I am sure the 1/3 bottle of Ford's cetane booster in 1/2 tank of fuel helped that. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif I would like to run this test again on a 2003 or 2004 engine. If there are any necessary changes I should make or try, list them please. Next time I will use a working valve as a dummy to more accurately simulate someone disabling the EGR. When I was placing the graphs on in the image I was able to superimpose them over the original. The one thing that was obvious is the rate of acceleration was better with everything plugged in and working. So I proved at least that screwing with the EGR wont increase POWER or boost. The question now is why?

GRAPHS 189kb You can click on the graphs link above and open the image in a browser window. A late version of Internet explorer will allow you to zoom in on the image. To download and view in the program of your choice, right click your mouse and select "Save As." I noticed the biggest difference between recordings 1 & 3. Recording 1 showed slightly higher boost and a quicker RPM acceleration. Recording 3 in contrast had less boost, higher EBP readings and look what the VGT is doing. If you want to see different PIDS or something speak up. It won't take too long to produce new graphs.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

Okay, I got lucky today. A 2005 with 10,825 on the odometer... 22,817 if calculated by engine hours. No wonder the EGR valve was clogged! I made three recordings, all identical runs and trigger points on a VERY steep hill in 1st gear, full throttle. The test variables are: New EGR valve & freshly de-coked intake and EBP tube /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif With the EGR valve disconnected With the EGR valve disconnected and engine harness plugged into a dummy valve I would like to narrow the PID list down to a minimum. I know which ones I want to look at but I would like to know your choices. Just give me a few days to get this up. First, I left the floppy at work and I will be taking the screen shots at home with my WDS desktop version... aside from that I'm doing 12 hour days lately and I have two little girls at home that distract me from getting anything else done. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Why not put the stock air filter back in for a while to confirm or eliminate the K&N filter as as the cause?

Perhaps we are. I think I am giving my theory too much credit as well. There are a lot of good explanations and summaries here and I love these kinds of threads but it's apparent we can't come to a conclusion. Before the original thread over on TDS got deleted I was getting some fairly confident reports that boost pressures were lower with an inoperative EGR valve. Duh! It just hit me! I will get out my VDR and make a couple recordings. One with the EGR operating and another with it disconnected. (yes, you can say that in these Forums) I will post the screen shots and we can pick 'em apart! Sound good?

Hey my knowledge is limited too but I am just trying to make sense of how this stuff is supposed to work. Once we determine that, we'll try to figure out how the EBP can be eliminated. From what I know as fact, you are correct in your description however I think you are actually describing the Flow test which does in fact infer the actual EGR flow rate for a given position of the valve. I also understand that this flow test is only performed under certain conditions and is actually a part of the comprehensive component monitor. Yes? Any way, once we know the volume of flow for a given valve position, EBP and MGP readings, I believe that MAF is not a part of the EGR closed loop operation. (please correct me if I am wrong) EGR is still controlled by managing the pressures in the intake and exhaust manifolds while the valve is open. Closing the VGT will raise EBP while lowering boost allowing flow. Please read this carefully: If the EGR valve is disconnected, stuck closed or clogged, does the PCM continue to close the VGT in an effort to raise EBP and increase EGR flow... causing lower boost pressures and a lack of power?

A similar question was raised about removing the EBP sensor via software. Considering what we have gone through with calibration changes and EBP sensor changes it seems risky to have designed the systems to depend on that sensor so heavily in the first place. Unless it is vital to determining EGR flow and OBD2 compliance why not have stuck a position sensor on the VGT and determined EGR flow using the other inputs... like it apparently can be done as with the '03s.

I have seen this rust patching on many parts shipped with that paper not just turbos. By the way, this turbo had so much oil on/in it it was dripping when I removed it from the shipping bag.

I don't know if you saw my response to a post over at TDS asking why there was less boost with the EGR valve disconnected. I gave it a shot and I thought this might be a good topic for us to toss around. Here is what I posted: Quote: Since the actual "strategy" of electronic engine controls are typically a guarded secret by the manufacturers, they are never publicly published as far as I am aware. The following is "my personal interpretation" based on my knowledge and experience. If you know differently or agree with this, please speak up! Some of what I wrote is based on what is contained in the 6.0L OBD2 theory and operation publication which explains the mechanics of what happens, but, it's the REASON behind what's going on and why is what I am trying to explain, not only to you but to myself! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif The turbocharger is actually controlled by adjusting the vanes to achieve a desired back pressure as measured by the EBP sensor. This back pressure is used to control manifold boost pressure. When the PCM opens the EGR valve, it controls it by reading the sensor that is inside the valve indicating it's position. But EGR is not as simple as that. There are several sensors that the PCM uses to calculate the amount of EGR FLOW and one of those sensors is... you guessed it, the EBP sensor! If the EGR valve fails to open (for whatever reason) the back pressure in the exhaust manifold remains unchanged indicating a low flow condition. The PCM is likely closing the vanes in the turbocharger in an attempt to raise the back pressure to increase EGR flow. In doing this, the turbocharger turbine loses the volume of expanding gasses it needs to turn at high speed and it slows down. This should help EGR flow by increasing back pressure in the exhaust but it also causes lower boost pressure in the intake manifold. Now do you see just how important the EBP sensor is to the operation of this engine? The EGR and VGT perform a delicate but wicked dance balanced upon a tiny little sensor. In reality, the two systems actually fight each other. This is also the reason that making significant changes to the flow of air in and out of the engine by installing aftermarket intake and exhaust systems to your truck can cause performance issues.

OOPS! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sleep.gif I forgot to follow up on this one. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Since my dealer is not "permitted" to replace the fuel pump the truck was dragged down to the CAT dealer. Sure enough, the fuel pump was bad. That still doesn't explain the low Actuation Pressure (ICP) to me unless the CAT engine can be over cranked until "dry" like a 7.3L.