Keith Browning

The ONLY three things I have seen that caused a slow crank condition were bad batteries/dirty terminals, loose engine ground and seized front end accessories (a/c compressor, water pump, idler pulley) You have covered the basics so perhaps you need to look at the more unlikely items. Coolant freezing up putting drag on the FEAD belt? Don't laugh! We ran into about 5 6.0L's that would not start due to seized a/c compressors. The engines would not crank above the required 100 RPM on most of them. The others cranked slow but fast enough to start and they made "high pitched noises" while running.

Jim, If I read what you wrote correctly, you CAN retrieve continuous codes and monitor PIDs but you CAN'T perform any on demand tests?

Well, it is obvious that Bio-diesel is something that is here to stay for sure. Ultimately this means that at some point in time, each and every one of us will have to deal with it and any effects it's use may be having on engines and fuel systems. This is another area that it would be prudent of the manufacturers to do some serious research and testing. In addition to that, develop some easy and inexpensive methods of testing and detecting the use of Bio-diesel in the field. Until "they" can develop fuel systems and engines that can tolerate the use of alternative fuels it seems like this is going to be a menace for a while. Now, isn't Bio-diesel used a lot in Europe? Are they having problems?

A big thumbs-up and a pat on the back for the employees of the Blue Diamond Truck plant in Escobedo, Mexico for quickly addressing a potential defect in the CF/LCF trucks. Last year I reported that a main wire harness located behind the radiator grille of the LCF trucks was chaffing on the center support bracket for the grille. Many of the circuits in that harness could cause the electronic engine control system malfunction in a variety of ways including a sudden stall of the engine. We all know about that situation too well. I also posted the following article: LCF - 4.5L Power Stroke Surging and Stalling Last week I was performing a PDI on a newly delivered LCF. As I mentioned, I began checking all stock units as they arrived for this potential problem. To my surprise I discovered that the harness has been re-routed away from the brackets and mounts that were causing the chaffing concern. I am sure that calls from the Technical Service HotLine brought this to the attention of engineering but if this site was of any help, I would like to know. Since there are a few employees from the Escobedo plant that are members in these forums, I just wanted to say GOOD JOB! Quickly identifying concerns that require action and then making the required changes to the products we all rely on to make a living is a big help to everyone involved.

I know they are painful to watch but this episode is on diagnosing 6.0L injectors. Might be worth watching. The program is to air starting on January 23rd, 2006 AT 10:00 AM EST, ON C17, HOST 36. I assume the times are also available on the PTS web site and If I am not mistaken you can also view them on the Internet?

Interesting take on that. I had a v-10 with coolant coming out of the bottle but the level was okay. This leads me to think that the designed level is too high allowing coolant to be expelled as pressure releases under normal conditions. Perhaps this recall will eventually affect all super duties with this style coolant bottle? This might reduce the number of people coming in with a "stain" assuming they have a blown head gasket or EGR cooler. When those fail, its quite obvious like you mentioned. I have begun adjusting the fill level towards the minimum to see if it helps. Oh, almost forgot, those decals don't seem to stick very well. Anybody else see this???

HGM, don't be sorry! IF you know something to be incorrect, by all means, speak up. As you can tell, many of us have heard bits and pieces of stories from different sources. I am quite sure that we technicians won't know anything definite until we either attend some kind of training or see the production engine in our service bays. I am sure these Forums will be quite lively then! And since it's obvious that a few of you on the "inside" know what you have seen and have been told, I am sure that what you know is neither final or something you can really discuss at this time. This is understood and respected. I will say that I am having fun fishing for information! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif As for the turbo set up, what I was told made perfect sense to me. That turbo set up definitely looks like there ARE two turbos but I can't tell if either is a VGT and how they are arranged. I feel like a cat at the end of a ball of string!

We are talking about that silver layered looking part near the turbo inlet in the picture? Top arrow? Regardless of what IT is it does look like the intake hoses are attached... could just be the angle. Then again, there looks to be a hose or test probe everywhere on this thing! I am actually relieved that my theory was incorrect. I would hate to think that the engineers developing this engine would consider such a risk. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif

You can send the pic to boards@forddoctorsdts.com and I can put it on the server and post it for you. We love pictures of bad parts and busted up trucks! A while back someone at TDS posted a pic of a 9/16 socket that was punched through the trans bell housing after picking up his truck from the dealer. It had a trans recall performed. Whoops! ON EDIT: Got the pics, Thank You, will post later but first, it's off to work I go! I'll see if I can find that photo of the socket too.

Do you think the intake is a good place to put a fuel cooler? I mean, if in fact the intake air is drawn through the cooler providing the cooling medium, what would happen if the cooler were to fail, spraying high pressure fuel into the intake? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I wonder how many RPM's it will hit before it let's loose? I don't mean to be a pessimist but I thought I might point that out. Did anyone think of this possibility? I can almost read the recall notice now! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif

There is a thread over on TDS about cleaning MAF sensors. The guy claims to have restored "lost power" and his fuel economy came up 2 MPG! I was skeptical so I did some reading on the 6.oL OBD theory and operation concerning EGR, but I am not yet convinced either way. Perhaps we can/should start playing with this concept to confirm or decline these claims and here is why: From what I was able to find and read, the interesting thing is that the MAF signal and data is not used on the 6.0L for fuel calculations at all. The MAF signal is used to calculate exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) and for fault detection. Basically, EGR flow is estimated based on the difference between the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor reading, and, the total mass flow calculated by the speed density calculation. The estimated EGR flow is then compared to the expected EGR flow to determine if there is insufficient or excessive flow. From what I can tell this actually serves as a feedback mechanism to verify that the EGR emissions system is operating properly. This is a function of the OBD 1&2 Systems and Comprehensive Component Monitors. Now, if this sensor is providing biased readings they would have to be way off to be considered out of range and set a code or even have an effect... right? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif The only trucks I have heard of having a problem with this sensor are those with aftermarket "performance" intake filters due to contamination or airflow characteristics. This idea in my opinion is actually worth a closer look because any anomaly that COULD affect EGR operation COULD theoretically affect performance and fuel economy. Doesen't cleaning this sensor cause damage to it? Would it really matter? If I am way off, then could somebody please come to my home and smack me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif around a little for thinking way to hard about this!

I saw that there too! If I recall, it was the only thing on the bulletin board that week. I meant them to ask why but I forgot apparently.

That TSB supercedes to 05-22-3. My guess is that it streteches the affected production build dates past what recall 05B29 covered. The TSB describes the reasons as excessive oil leaking and loss of power from the tube blowing off. sounds familiar. I havent seen any problems with any black tubes that were not part of the recall. I will say that I have a really hard time getting some of those tubes off the connections though! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

Good pictures! Thank you for sharing them. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif I've been waiting to find one like that to photograph and perhaps write an article on the topic of mainenance, fuel quality and fuel filers. Now I know what I am looking for.

Customer Satisfaction Program 05B32 Quote: All 2005 Model Year F-250/350/450/550 and Excursion Vehicles Equipped with 6.0L Diesel Engines De-gas Bottle Fill Level Label and Fluid Level Adjustment AFFECTED VEHICLES All 2005 model year F-250/350/450/550 and Excursion vehicles built at the Kentucky Truck Plant from Job #1 2005 through Job Last 2005. Affected vehicles are identified in OASIS. In addition, see https://web.fsavinlists.dealerconnection.com for a list of vehicles assigned to your dealership. This information will be available on January 9, 2006. REASON FOR THIS PROGRAM The coolant fill markings on the affected vehicles are incorrect, creating the potential for an over fill condition. An over fill condition may lead to fluid expulsion during high system aeration. Loss of fluid can cause engine overheating, and may cause a loss of engine power. SERVICE ACTION Dealers are to install a label on the de-gas bottle that incorporates the correct "cold fill range" min/max fluid level markings and, if necessary, adjust the fluid level. This is to be done at no charge to the vehicle owner.

Customer Satisfaction Program 05B35 Quote: Certain 2005–2006 Model Year F-250/350/450/550, and E350/450 Vehicles Equipped with 6.0L Diesel Engines Engine Control Modules-Recalibration AFFECTED VEHICLES Certain 2005-2006 model year E350/450 vehicles equipped with 6.0L diesel engines built from 3/4/2005 through 8/7/2005. Certain 2005-2006 model year F-250/350/450/550 vehicles equipped with 6.0L diesel engines built from 1/19/2005 through 7/31/2005. Note: Only certain vehicles built in the above time frame are affected by this Customer Satisfaction Program. The remaining vehicles will be serviced under Voluntary Emissions Recall 05E16. Please consult OASIS to be sure you are administering the correct program. Affected vehicles are identified in OASIS. In addition, for a list of vehicles assigned to your dealership, visit https://web.fsavinlists.dealerconnection.com. This information will be available on January 9, 2006. REASON FOR THIS RECALL The engine control modules on the affected vehicles may not be calibrated to the latest software levels, adversely affecting the performance and reliability of the engine. SERVICE ACTION Dealers are to recalibrate (reflash) the engine control modules with the latest level software. This must also be performed on all of the affected vehicles in your inventory prior to delivery. Be sure that your Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS) is updated using WDS release B40.7 and higher or B41.1 and higher. THIS NEW CALIBRATION IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE B41 CD. Calibration files may also be obtained at http://www.motorcraft.com (refer to Attachment III for software levels). 2005 Model Year F-Series Vehicles Operated in Cold Weather Note: After the update, 2005 model year F-Series vehicles operated in cold weather may experience a small reduction in acceleration during the first few minutes of cold engine operation. Customers in this category will be notified of this.

Voluntary Emission Recall 05E16 Quote: AFFECTED VEHICLES Certain 2004–2006 Model Year F-250/350, Excursion, and E350 Vehicles Equipped with 6.0L Diesel Engines Engine Control Modules-Recalibration Group 1: Certain Vehicles Under 14,000# GVW and Equipped With a Calibration That Requires Compliance with OBD Regulations: 2005-2006 model year E350 vehicles equipped with 6.0L diesel engines built from 3/4/2005 through 8/7/2005. 2005 model year Excursion vehicles equipped with 6.0L diesel engines built from 1/19/2005 through 9/30/2005. 2005-2006 model year F-250/350 vehicles equipped with 6.0L diesel engines built from 1/19/2005 through 7/31/2005. Note: Only certain vehicles built in the above time frame are affected by this Emissions concern. The remaining vehicles will be serviced under Customer Satisfaction Program 05B35. Please consult OASIS to be sure you are administering the correct program. Group 2: A small number of vehicles that were repaired with an incomplete calibration between July 5, 2005 and July 18, 2005 (prior to the temporary suspension of Voluntary Emissions Recall 05E15) will also be serviced in Voluntary Emission Recall 05E16 Certain 2004 model year E350 vehicles equipped with 6.0L diesel engines built from 12/9/2003 through 5/28/2004. Certain 2004 model year F-250/350 and Excursion vehicles equipped with 6.0L diesel engines built from 12/1/2003 through 5/31/04. Certain 2004 model year F-250/350 and Excursion vehicles equipped with 6.0L diesel engines built from 9/29/2003 through 11/30/2003. Affected vehicles are identified in OASIS. In addition, for a list of vehicles assigned to your dealership, visit https://web.fsavinlists.dealerconnection.com. This information will be available on January 9, 2006. REASON FOR THIS PROGRAM On some of the affected vehicles, the on-board diagnostic (OBD) system may not properly monitor the performance of the emissions control systems, which may prevent a required illumination of the "check engine" light

Check out this article New Ford Diesel Hybrid Sports Concept

I also caught the Tech Time Plus episode during lunch demonstrating the IDS. I don't know about this set up. In my shop the cables and the notebook PC are going to take a beating and I am afraid it will become frequently useless due to missing stuff or damage. Ford should really have made this into some type of cart similar to the WDS. The only real change is that it is now PC installable and is updated for the new technology and better performance. The lap top and the VMM are likely to hit the floor frequently. Dammit I wish I could afford my own PDS! It's perfect for us diesel guys. And... I was wondering what will become of the MD Truck software bundle? we need that for the 650-750, LCF and Wabco braking diagnostics. I have yet to read or hear any mention of that.

My "frosted side" loves it!

It's finally here. This is part of the Dealer Message posted on January 6, 2006. See the PTS and Rotunda web sites or more details. Quote: Ford Motor Company is pleased to introduce the next generation in diagnostic technology, the Ford Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS); the replacement for the Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS). Beginning in June 2006, the Ford Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) will be the only equipment that provides complete diagnostic coverage of current and future Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles.

Yeah but do you think it's really possible? I mean there's a lot of trucks out there and I have had my share with water making it to the engine. I have yet to see one blow the tips off the injectors.

Marc, Welcome to the DTS! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif I do have a disagreement with the following: Quote: it will be twin turbo(i know this is already out there) one will be VGT controlled and one will be waste gate style, First, use the proper terminology is "Dual-Stage Turbocharger" also known as a regulated turbocharger. Since it basically does the same thing that a VGT does, I doubt that the dual-stage turbo would contain a VGT. If you attended the LCF new model training you would be familiar with the set up and how it works. In fact, I was told by the training engineer that the dual-stage assembly was chosen over a VGT because of reliability and performance. We are to see a turbo assembly on the 6.4L PSD that is similar to what is currently being installed on the 4.5L Power Stroke. Having driven 4.5L LCF trucks I can say that the power and boost is smooth. Low-end boost is snappy and I felt that boost and acceleration was seamless throughout acceleration... but it's no 6.0L! The fun part of all this is that most of us, techs, will not truly know until it's in production.

Good advice from Jim. You will likely find those three injectors are your problem. This is the time of year that early injector failure becomes noticeable during cold starts. Unfortunately at my dealer we keep getting bit in the ass by replacing 2 or 3 injectors and then finding that the rest become a problem after installing a few new ones. There is just no way to determine if the entire set of injectors has been subjected to the affects of poor fuel quality or low fuel pressure before getting into it, especially if it's running very poorly. Here's another good one to chew on... a post from TDS where allegedly an injector tip has broken off and caused (obviously) severe engine damage: Quote: Were you using any additive in your fuel? If yes, which one? ------------------------------------------------- The reason I asked is that some additives contain alcohol and will dissolve water into the diesel. Because the 6.0L uses a very high injection pressure coupled with the high pressure in the diesel, this water can explode as steam in the injector tip and cause the tip to crack. (Some additives are not safe for our engines!!) In this case, the failure would be the fault of the additive, not Ford. An other example of the owner/operator being responsible for the damage and blaming Ford...I'm not saying that happened in this case, but at this point, I don't know?? Does this theory "hold any water" or is this guy all wet? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif He is right about not wanting to disperse water in the fuel by using an alcohol based additive bit I don't know what to think about the steam explosion part.