Keith Browning

17-ML-232-ML- Moved to Parts Forum

In a SSM (5065) on today's broadcast messages the recommendation is to use MOTORCRAFT VC-1 COOLANT FLUSH to flush the engine and radiator. I don't know if this is the stuff that you guys think works poorly but I thought I would post it just in case this is new. I seem to remember that we were advised to use a low sudsing detergent like Tide.

Don't confuse dyed off road fuel with sulfur content. With low sulfur fuels coming just around the corner, there are concerns about the lubricity of the LSD (low sulfur diesel) affecting fuel systems. The process of removing the sulfur from crude oil is what does this and the results have been causing some problems world-wide concerning wear to injection systems. I have also read about certain additives used to improve lubricity that can affect rubber seals and o-rings that come in direct contact with them. This supports the opposite from what you are suggesting about HIGH sulfur content. As far as I have been told by anyone at Ford, mostly training instructors, the use of off road fuel is not recommended due to the fact that it's quality cannot be guaranteed. Off road diesel (with red dye) is typically the same fuel oil that is supplied for highway use. Samples of off road fuels have historically tested to have more contamination because of poor storage and handling practices. Things like water, algae, crankcase oil, industrial chemical waste are apparently commonly found in off road fuel. These contaminants can do severe damage to fuel systems (pumps, injectors, seals) If you cannot get a HotLine engineer to explain what he is telling you then his knowledge on the topic is suspect. In fact, I don't think most of us have any clue as to what this is all about, myself included. Perhaps it is time for someone at Ford to sit down and outline the LSD situation, the technology being used in Ford vehicles that allows us to use it and what any side affects there may be due to its use that we will have to contend with. Do what I did. Search Google for these words "diesel sulfur lubrication" and start reading everything on the first two pages of results. I was fascinated by what I read!

Yes but that test has you disconnect the ICP sensor with the engine already running. The 7.3's never started with the ICP disconnected and to the best of my recollection, neither did the 6.0's until now.

Ernie, read this thread, I got the same surprise one day too! http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000058

I wouldn't say that but the cooler would have to be leaking pretty badly to affect all four cylinders on the right bank. It is also dependent on which cylinders have the exhaust valves open at the time it's shut down. It is the fact that the engine is lower in the rear that makes cylinders 5 & 7 more prone to hydrolocking simply because they are lower.

Well, from driving the new trucks on the lot during the PDI I still say most of them do this and it's normal for the truck. I still think it's not right and should not make noise.

Yeah Ernie, if you have a leaker its going to drain right into the right exhaust manifold. I hear it's common to get coolant into cylinders #5 and #7 but that would have to be a significant leak! Fortunately the only ones I have seen were using coolant slowly. If you use the adapter from your compression gage in the glow plug hole and slowly crank the engine around you can relieve the cylinder of the coolant without getting it in the crankcase or damaging the engine.

Would you like help with the poll? We can delete the thread before it goes far and start fresh if you would like. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

You can use the diagnostics in the PCED for 1994 which by the way is on line in the PTS website. You can use that manual for all year idi engines. Dont know where the sensor is but if I were to guess it would be the one by the upper hose at the engine near that black square module on the harness. I do remember replacing the glow plug controller assembly for that concern.

Quote: Ford Senior Mechanic Diesel Certified Instructor - Lesser Slave Regional Fire Servce Staff Mechanic - 6literpowerstroke.com Curmudgeon Nahhh... it doesent look right. I sense there's a story behind this one?

Good point actually. I have seen the results of my own and my coworkers over tightening of these clamps. We have even caused the clamps to distort to the point where they are actually bending and turning into a cone that pushes itself off the hose when tight. Got a problem CAC hose? REPLACE the hose and clamps and lean the pipes and turbo with Brakleen and dry them first. Once they are damaged, no amount of tightening will fix them. And on a lighter note: I will be pulling another 6.0L for a bed plate leak and replacing the short block assembly. I removed and resealed this one about a year ago and did some pretty heavy measuring and inspecting of the machined surfaces. The spaghetti gasket channel was machined very poorly, had a scalloped surface. I tried in vane to get Ford to approve a replacement but to no avail. NOW that a short block is available, I can REPAIR it and well under the $8200 cost cap. And this time the cab comes off. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

TSB 05-23-10 DTC 343, 166 AND/OR 167 IDENTIFIED AS UNKOWN BY MASTERDIAGNOSTIC SOFTWARE Some 2004 through 2006 F-650/750 and 2006 Low Cab Forward vehicles using MasterDiagnostic® software for diagnosis may display diagnostic trouble code (DTC) 343, 166 and 167 as "Unknown Diagnostic Trouble Code". The TSB has diagnostic procedures that will assist in resolving these unknown DTCs.

International Truck and Engine Corporation Issues Update on 2007 Emissions Plans Including Anticipated Price Increases; Validation Will Involve Largest Field Test In Company History WARRENVILLE, Ill.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 8, 2005--International Truck and Engine Corporation, the operating company of Navistar International Corporation (NYSE:NAV), today provided an update on its plans and progress toward development of 2007 emissions-ready trucks and engines, including its goals for product testing, its technology path and expected price increases. Dee Kapur, president of the company's truck group, said that an industry media briefing held today was part of a plan to ensure that "our customers can make informed decisions about their business" with 2007 quickly approaching and customers already scheduling orders in the third and fourth quarters. "International is building on its years of experience with Green Diesel Technology® vehicles to implement evolutionary changes in our products to meet 2007 standards," said Kapur. "In doing so, our goals are to provide International and IC Corporation customers with the highest reliability, serviceability and performance." International announced as part of the briefing that it is focused on achieving comparable performance to what its customers see today and is conducting the largest field test in its history to help achieve that goal. "Our goal for testing is to obtain robust data on all areas that affect the performance of our integrated truck and engine solution and with our engine suppliers, including power levels, fuel economy, durability, reliability, and maintenance intervals," said Phil Christman, vice president, product creation. "This involves extensive winter testing and ensuring we have trucks in customers' hands in a wide variety of applications. We will be testing performance in millions of miles." International released preliminary information on both pricing and fuel economy, noting it was working on minimizing the impact of both on its customers. Prices for International mid-range diesel powered trucks and IC buses are estimated to increase $5,000 to $6,000 per vehicle while for International Class 8 truck/tractors with supplier engines, the estimates range from $7,000 to $10,000. Additional charges will apply with certain engines where higher horsepower requires dual after treatment. The anticipated price increases in the cost of new trucks are the results of more stringent federal exhaust emissions standards that go into effect in 2007. "We are supporting incentives to mitigate these price increases through our work with the American Trucking Associations (ATA)," said Patrick Charbonneau, vice president, government relations. "The ATA is engaged in discussions with a number of elected officials to give customers a five percent tax credit on Class 8 trucks containing the new engines." Based on current tests of International engines, fuel economy degradation currently is estimated beyond the 1 percent expected through the use of ultra low sulfur fuel. Christman said International is also focused on maximizing fuel economy to close the gap. For its family of mid-range engines, International will be optimizing exhaust gas recirculation (EGR), and using proven air management and fuel injection systems in addition to a diesel particulate filter based upon six years of Green Diesel Technology vehicle development. International also noted it is closely collaborating with its engine suppliers, Caterpillar and Cummins, both of which will be using cooled EGR strategies, for the 2007 solutions in its Class 8 trucks. "We are doing everything we can to support our customer's business on the product and service side, as well as to be a source of knowledge on the latest developments. It will be a collaborative effort between International and our dealer network to be a 2007 emissions expert for our customers," Kapur said. International Truck and Engine Corporation is the operating company of Navistar International Corporation (NYSE:NAV). The company produces International® brand commercial trucks, mid-range diesel engines and IC brand school buses and is a private label designer and manufacturer of diesel engines for the pickup truck, van and SUV markets. The company is also a provider of truck and diesel engine parts and service sold under the International® brand. A wholly owned subsidiary offers financing services. Additional information is available at: www.internationaldelivers.com.

Ford mulls new 4.4-litre diesel for F-Series trucks by John Mortimer and dieselforecast.com Ford’s engineers are mulling a new 4.4-litre V8 diesel engine as a power unit for the company’s F-Series pick-up trucks, and have solicited tooling so far. This engine is substantially different than the new V8 planned for upcoming Land Rovers that will replace the existing BMW-sourced engines. Insider ripples appear in the wake of news that the company has triggered record sales of the F-Series trucks. Ford sold 126,905 trucks in July 2005, well above the previous record of 102,424 units set in October 2001. Word is that the cylinder block will share the compacted graphite iron (CGI) construction of the United Kingdom-produced Lion V6 engine to achieve class-leading power density. The potential arrival of a new V8 diesel engine is significant for at least two reasons, according to insiders. First, the new diesel engine will allow the company to become independent of Navistar International that supplies diesels for the F-Series. Navistar is based in Indianapolis and Hunstville. Second, Ford does yet offer a diesel engine in the popular F150 model, the smallest of the F-Series trucks. Power ranges from 202 hp (352 Nm torque) from the 4.2-liter V6, through 231 hp (396 Nm torque) for the 4.6-liter V8, to 300 hp (494 Nm torque) from the 5.4-litre Triton engine. These are all gasoline engines. A diesel is seen as essential for future sales leadership. For the F250 and F350 models, Ford can offer only the 6.0-liter Powerstroke diesel engine which produces 325 hp and 770 Nm torque – the other two offerings, the 5.4-litre Triton of 300 hp and the 6.8-litre V10 Triton of 355 hp (615 Nm), are both gasoline engines. The Powerstroke diesel is manufactured by Navistar International, which has also developed a new V6 diesel engine – the VT275. This is a 4.5-liter V6 turbodiesel. However, it develops only 200 hp – Ford develops this power rating from its smaller, lighter and more compact V6 Lion diesel engine manufactured in the United Kingdom at Dagenham. This horsepower gap highlights the huge gap that exists in diesel technology in Europe and North America . Navistar had a 4.0-litre V6 diesel, but Ford can easily match it on price and performance. Added to which, Ford and Navistar have had their differences in the past regarding the supply of both V6 and V8 diesel engines. Navistar had planned to ship 4.0-litre V6 diesels to Ford some years back, but the deal unraveled, reputedly on grounds of fuel injection technology. The significance of Ford’s new diesel engine is its power rating. At 4.4-liters with a turbocharger, the engine will develop 330 hp – ideal for all F-Series passenger and light-duty applications, namely, F150, F250 and F350. Also, it should be capable of at least 700 Nm of torque. This will bring it within nudging distance of Navistar’s 6.0-liter Powerstroke, but in lighter and more compact form. The arrival of the engine will be good news for Britain . As product planners mull over the options there is a good chance the engine will be built at Ford’s Dagenham Diesel Centre, Essex , UK , where it will be manufactured alongside the existing V6 Lion diesel engine. However, in order to achieve a power output of 330 hp, Ford’s powertrain engineers will need to use compacted graphite iron (CGI) for the cylinder block, just as they have done for the cylinder block of the V6 diesel engine that is used by Jaguar, Land Rover and the PSA group in France. Ford’s preferred supplier of CGI cylinder blocks is Tupy SA in Brazil . Tupy heads the four-fold supply chain of foundries specializing in CGI – Tupy also supplies Audi in Germany . The logistics of the new engine would require the blocks to be cast by Tupy in Brazil , given cubing machining operations at the foundry and then shipped to Dagenham for finish machining and final assembly. The completed engines would then be shipped across the Atlantic for fitment to the F-Series. Insiders in the UK believe the new 4.4-litre engine would make an ideal power unit for Land Rover’s top class Range Rover models. The current top-of-the-range model uses a 305 hp 4.4-litre V8 gasoline engine built at Bridgend in South Wales . Speculation in the UK has it that Ford is aiming at a production volume for the new engine of around 130,000 units, of which 100,000 would go the US for F-Series and 30,000 to Land Rover. Land Rover uses a 4.4-litre gasoline engine in the latest version of the Discovery SUV, the LR3, as well as a 4.0-liter gasoline engine for selected markets. There is also the TDV6 turbodiesel available – but so far only for manual six-speed gearbox versions. So there is potential too for the new 4.4-litre engine to fit into this vehicle. The new 4.4-litre engine is estimated to be about three years away from production. But with the current roar away sales of F-Series, Ford is likely to miss potential diesel sales. Experience with Ford’s V6 Lion diesel has proved the engine can offer almost gasoline-like performance coupled with huge torque characteristics, although the current trend in North America is for a burbling V8.

Yes, I have seen that white cottage cheese looking deposits in the fuel water seperator. It has to be moisture reacting with someting in the fuel. When it builds up enough it reduces the water seperators capacity and contaminates the sensor. As for the heater I read the SSM too. I actually think it was un needed in the first place because of the engine heat as mentioned. If anyone is going to notice it's missing it will be our friends to the North when they fire up their trucks on a frigid ten below morning! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

Quote: I feel bad for you guys that are going to have to make it on flat rate. I think it pays to have guys working on these that are not flat rate. I am not flat rate anymore. My JOB is to diagnose and fix these trucks and keep our customers happy. I need to be productive of course but my employer has placed emphasis on getting the job done. The other guys I work with are pretty good at keeping on the move and as a team we hold our own. I can see why so many techs just don't have the will to work on these anymore for the pay (flat rate)and I'll be honest, I wont do it ever again. Know your worth Gentlemen. Be trained, be good and be consistent and you will be worth your weight in gold. There are dealers willing to pay or at the very least willing to talk.

I believe there are a couple of ways. One involves looking at the programing code. There is another member here (wink-wink) that can help describe this to you and how to access this "special function" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif for which you will need the "code of the day." Another HotLine engineer had mentioned to me that he has found that when a programmer has been used, the Mode-9 vehicle information may contain garbled characters that resemble Chinese writing in, around or replacing the calibration number or file name. I personally have seen this around the calibration file name. I don't know just how correct and official this info is. I guess the only real way to determine this is to get virgin truck and install a program into the PCM and compare your findings before and after.

If I were younger I probably would not have the strength to hold back on replying to this one... but I cant. It would be fun, but I just cant do it!

This was e-mailed to me today, the first funny thing to realize is that the "contact us" link brings up a page with red lettering "This link is not to be used to ask technical advice and such requests will not receive a response."Yet the mail still comes...

Quote: 2005 EXCURSION/2005-2006 E-SERIES/F-SUPER DUTY - 6.0L - NO ICP FROM INJECTOR SEAL/SPRING CLIP SOME 2005 EXCURSION AND 2005-2006 F-SUPER DUTY, AND E-SERIES VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A 6.0L DIESEL MAY EXHIBIT A HARD START, OR NO START CONDITION WITH LOW OR NO INJECTION CONTROL PRESSURE (ICP). DURING NORMAL HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEM DIAGNOSIS, BE SURE TO INSPECT WHERE THE HIGH PRESSURE OIL RAIL SEATS INTO THE TOP OF EACH FUEL INJECTOR FOR A DAMAGED OR MISSING SEAL RING AND/OR SPRING CLIP. IF COMPONENTS ARE MISSING, THEY MUST BE LOCATED OR ENGINE DAMAGE WILL RESULT. THE MOST LIKELY LOCATIONS ARE IN THE TOP OF THE HEAD, IN THE OIL PAN, OR IN THE PICK UP SCREEN. IF THE COMPONENTS ARE NOT FOUND, INSPECT THE LOW PRESSURE OIL PUMP AND REGULATOR No kidding Ford? Catch up guys!!! Do you think they read this or are there a lot of warranty claims coming in??? Not to mention that some of these trucks suddenly STALL while flying down the highway! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

My team mate had trouble getting the lower piece off like mentioned, due to the o-ring. I want to offer a word of caution about getting in there and trying to pry it up. If you use a lady finger type pry bar, you can get under the outlet where the hose slides and locks onto. BE CAREFUL not to damage this sealing surface or scratch it up too heavily... or you will be doing this one over again! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif

Thanx! That was quick and a new member at that. Welcome to FDDTS. The 4C4Z-AA number was the one I wanted. The Motorcraft number is RH153. The box contains the orange hose only and you use the short cut mentioned above. Works like a charm. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I also saw the blue hose in the valve grind kit that I used on that head gasket job. Perhaps the part may eventually switch over but the hose in the box today was orange.

Okay, Does anyone know what the part number for the REPLACEMENT ORANGE EGR COOLANT HOSE is? I know this was an SSM but I cant seem to bring it up. The kit was to make the hose itself available without having to order an EGR cooler.

2004 and up Econoline gas engine apps. with the fuel pump driver module on the left frame rail - cranks no start and fuel gage inop. I have seen this mostly on stripped chassis but I don't see any difference to other E-series vans. Check ground G302 on the frame rail next to the fuel pump driver module, it is usually rusted causing high resistance from my findings over the last several months. (5 trucks) Intermittent crank no start, possible codes: P1233