Jim Warman

Perhaps I should elucidate (that is todays word, boys and girls), Keith. Having been in business for myself (for enough years to prove I was a shitty businessman) and now being in a lower management position... I have "my numbers" to watch out for. Am I a cruel, heartless bastuhd? When I need to be yes.... Truth be told.... I try to give a little "Easter egg" with every work order.... something we have done that we could have charged for but didn't... For the most part, these "Easter eggs" don't amount to a hill of beans.... Let's not forget the amount of time I spend on the phone or out in the driveway.... either giving away something I fought to learn or showing people how to read an owners manual. At the same time, we do have customers that deserve that extra "something". The elderly or others on "fixed" incomes.... single moms doing their best to make ends meet... These are the people that I like to help out the most... and I can do it without getting in a whole pile of crap (our DP is nearly a prince among men.... with his guidance and blessing we raise several thousands of dollars every year for Santas Anonymous and other worthy causes). One of our local food stores has a bin for donations to the local food bank. I can't speak for others but every time I go into that store, I make sure there is something in the basket that I can toss into the bin on my way out. Healthy people that can fend for themselves (whether they have shit for a job or not) can pay.... just like the rest of us. This statement is made so that I can retain my "resident curmudgeon" status.... OTOH, my two flat rate guys.... One is involved with the local Scout Troop... more because his boy is involved than any other reason and his wife is always doing something in the community.. the other ???? I'm not really sure. Both of these guys will stare at their time tickets for hours... I've seen them argue with the SM for .6 over being shorted for .1 Certainly, the flat rate pay system hasn't encouraged anyone to become charitable.... but the lack of charity is a problem with most of society in this brave, new world. In the scene you describe, would you have forgone your cut of the pie if the store didn't charge for the repair? How many here will make a "no charge" punch for even the smallest of tasks (I've seen guys stamp their feet because they were expected to change a wiper blade for free)? Eye-opener. When I was on the bench full time, what I was doing would define how many times I visited the punch clock. Now? A slow day can have me fill three time cards... Thankfully "Shmoozing <so and so>" is a legitamate labour op for me. The flat rate pay system isn't "creating" a problem as far as charity is concerned.... It is simply taking an existing problem (created by society) and making it worse. YMMV

S'funny you should bring that up...Many moons ago, all 1st year apprentices in Alberta took part in a demonstration involving an old Chevy "Blue Flame 6" engine block and an inside micrometer. The engine block was circa 1953 so one can imagine the amount of cast iron involved.... The micrometer was adjusted so it suspended itself across one cylinder near the top. In turn, each apprentice would place his fingers in the cylinder on one side of the mike and his thumb in the cylinder on the other and squeeze... Whilst waiting for ones turn, thoughts of failure ran through our minds... we were going to look like whimps in front of our classmates!!!! Finally, your turn would come... and with hardly a touch, the mike would drop out of the cylinder...... So much for something made of "solid" cast iron... Not to hijack, but a valid observation on cylinder blocks... All of Fords "old technology" motors (Windsor, Cleveland, 335, 385, FE and even the very old Y blocks) had the head bolt threads in the block deck. Modern technology (including the Navistar) use very long head bolts with the threads located in the main bearing web area.... Food for thought.....

We can READ??? Just being facetious.... My 6 hour Saturday was almost 10 hours long.... Mostly because having to read stuff is, apparently, being a "pansy". <SIGH>... they light the fires... I put them out....

Mike, just out of curiosity..... Did you state what you did on the RO or simply quote the labour op number? I get the feeling that it may be a mistake on the warranty clerks side but........

Steve, I have yet to find a shop manual procedure that includes the application of anything slippery to a wheel stud (other than Fords single drop of motor oil twixt washer and nut on hubcentric wheels). Many (if not most or all) shop manuals will tell you that wheel studs should be clean and DRY... not even the application of an antisieze compound. The whole idea behind torquing a fastener is to achieve a specific clamping force (bolt "stretch" if you will). Torquing a fastener has NEVER been about being tight enough to stay tight - although proper torque will achieve this. Indeed, over-torquing a fastener will ensure that it wont come loose..... up until the fastener fails. Here we are... a body of those that consider themselves professional... and we are resisting doing one of those things that MAKES us professional.... that sets us apart from the shadetree bunch. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Consider this... some high dollar engine builders do not use a torque wrench to tighten connecting rod bolts. Instead, they use a micrometer to measure bolt stretch. A given grade of fastener will exhibit a known amount of length change to achieve a particular clamping force. Does anyone pay attention to bolt head markings and understand what they mean? I certainly hope that this isn't something that needs to be explained. FWIW.... I'm not much of a TV watcher.... and I'm not "always at work"... But, in the past, I have given myself to periods of ponderance. The "WHY"s and the "WHAT"s and the "HOW"s in our lives. Somewhere in my notes, I have the product of a weekend spent (hand calculating.... this is before computers if anyone can remember those days) how far a piston travels down the cylinder after the beginning of a combustion event before the spark plug "fizzles" out (knowing that the spark plug in a properly operating system will "spark" for about 1.5 milliseconds). I'm not a metallurgist (nor do I play one on TV), I have only been able to imagine what could go on with a fastener at vsrious torque values. But at least one gets to understand the difference between shear forces and torsional forces... In the grand scheme of things, I don't expect that my rantings will change anyones outlook on using a torque wrench. For me.... should there be a subsequent failure of any part...I can look my accuser in the eye and state that a particular fastener was torqued to factory spec. Plus, I enjoy the added comfort of knowing that the task was completed to the absolute best of my abilities. Isn't it funny... the older we get, the more we use the torque wrench.... Experience seems to be the best teacher....

Apparently, porn is still more popular than diesels.... Go figure....

Tony... I don't want to get inciteful or combative or whatever else anyone could mistrue as arguing for the sake of arguing. However (I must be getting semi-famous for my "howevers"...)... over my years I have seen a vast change in society, morals, comfort levels, you name it..... This drives a lot of different things.... Let's begin with engineering... or more precisely, engineering/bean counting/weight saving. The gauge of steel used to stamp the frame pieces on my old 73 F100 was about the same gauge as they are currently producing F350 DRW frames from. The torque produced by the front disc brakes was transferred to a heavy, cast iron piece... not to a couple of 10mm bolts IN SHEAR. Whoops, my bad, you said "anchor".... more later... For my buck... torque critical bolts include caliper mounting bolts, seatbelt mounting bolts, steering components (including tie rod ends and ball joints... (can anyone here recite the correct sequence for tightening SD 4X4 ball joints? )... anything that can alter a customers life experience in a sad way. Along with other, already mentioned peices. We have fewer and smaller fasteners that we expect to do the same or more work than in previous years. Try this experiment..... Run a set of wheel nuts on a Super Duty on with your impact wrench. It will take a bit of practice to give the trigger just enough so the run ends in just one "pukka". Don't give it any more gun after that. Set your torque wrench to 165 and start with the first nut you ran and follow the exact same pattern. Fasteners that are final tightened with a garage impact will be one of two things... too tight, a catastrophic failure waiting to happen.... or too loose, and none of your customers will ever hear anything bad untils something off the truck either passes them on the highway or beats the piss out of about $12K of parts (try and get that one past warranty). "Resistance is futile.... you will be assimilated...". My son might be squandering his inheritance by the time this happens.... But there will come the day that you can understand what I'm saying..... Last... but certainly not least.... We see all manner of thread diameter/pitch combinations.... Hmmmmm, I wonder why?

Lookee over this way ----------> to "Tech Resources", second from the bottom... That Kieth feller has thot 'bout danged near evahthing... There's a LOT of good stuff there. Oooops.... Make that Keith /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Trashy ICP around 2000 rpm? Motor feels almost like it is dropping cylinders? Try this.... keep your rpm steady between 1800~2000.... wherever it is running crappy. Manipulate the IPR in active command mode to raise and lower the ICP. If the nature of the "misfires" change, there is a good chance you have bad high pressure oil rail check valves....

Tony... basically, I consider a fasteners role.... What's "torque critical" and what isn't. If it isn't torque critical... tightening by hand with any old wrench is good as long as you have developed the "feel". Tie rod sleeve clamps... these are torque critical and you can never do these with an impact and get predictable results. I run something like this up snug with an impact and use a torque wrench... Too often, I have seen Super Duties with one end pulled out of a tie rod or drag link sleeve... Lack of clamping force can be the only reason. Absolutely everything "inside" any assembly gets torqued... engine, trans, diff. As I get older, I find more and more fasteners that I like to final tighten with a torque wrench.... Overkill? Probably.... But modern society is getting more and more litigious. Better safe than sorry for any bolt that has the opportunity to injure or kill someone.... If worst came to worst, looking a jury in the eye and stating that these fasteners were torqued in accordance with factory directions. Every now and again, we see someone snarling about stripped out bolts - valve cover bolts, oil pan bolts.... Bolts with rounded over corners... Bolts that wont break loose... Yet we continue to depend on "ZOOOOP.... RATTLE.... RATTLE". Yes, I use torque wrenches a lot... I didn't pay all of that money for all those wrenches because I like chrome.... The devil is in the details... deciding when it is more appropriate to use a torque wrench is one of those details. No. Tony... I don't use a torque wrench on everything... but I do use a torque wrench more than most. This year marks the 40th anniversary of the first time tightened an automotive fastener in exchange for a paycheque. I guess I've tightened my fair share of fasteners in that space of time. If you see me reaching for a torque wrench... you can pretty well bet I've seen the need for it. Side benefits of using a torque wrench.... you look up a spec... and find out you've been re-using torque to yield fasteners. You look up a spec and find out those dinky little injector hold downs on a 6.4 get 28 freaking ft/lb (this is a prime example of a "torque critical" fastener). Are we to proclaim our devout professionalism and then consider that torque wrenches are for pussies? Quick - quick!!! What is the factory torque spec on those 8mm bolts holding the rear caliper on a 04ish 250/350 to the slide pins? Want to guess how many rear calipers I see in a year that are being held in place by the wheel? (FWIW, the correct answer is "one is too many"). Compare your thoughts to the spec in the manual... Modern manufacturing and assembly practices have evolved greatly over the years. Where the engineers once used several larger fasteners to accomplish a task, they are now using fewer smaller ones. This places more stress on those fasteners - correct installation procedures and tightening specifications are becoming more and more important. Anyone reading this is free to do whatever they feel comfortable with.... And I will continue to my job my way... Second last job of the day was to adjust toe and clear vision on a 350 dually. I ran the clamp bolts just snug with a 3/8ths impact and then torqued the fasteners to spec... Gawd how I squander time... must have took all of one minute from torque wrench out of box to torque wrench back in box. Sorry for the lecture....

I'm siding with Jay on this one... Yes... fuel prices are a killer.... but we have technologies in development that will reduce our dependancy on petroleum products. At the same time, the non-renewable resources we need to protect is the very air we breathe and the water we consume. Two of the basics for human survival. Should we squander our air quality to save a few bucks at the pump island? I'm pretty sure that, in the very near future, I am going to have grandchildren to spoil. I'd like to hand them the keys to a planet that isn't going to kill them. Clean tailpipe emissions do NOT go hand in hand with good fuel economy... we proved that in the 70s.

Like Larry says... we gotta know which line.... You might have been cranking it long enough to make this a multi-step affair.... "Input... need more input...." Johnny Five.

Something I "think" I saw in programmable parameters on an 08 (job 3 truck if I remember right) was an engine hours "reset". I had several large caliber work orders pointed at my head at the time so there was no time for further exploration.

If you guys feel trapped into this kind of shit... make sure you cross your "T"s and dot your "i"s. A signed and witnessed waiver or disclaimer is a good idea. Me? I'll tell my DP we can't do <that>.... We'll look like thieves if someone else sees it. Push hasn't yet come to shove and for this I am grateful. I don't see it happening... FWIW, if I have a unit in the shop and we discover anything to make this truck unfit for use on public roads, I cannot legally impound this unit. Consider this. If I hand the customer the keys and let him drive it off the lot.... I have just indicated that I DO think this unit is safe to drive. Instead, the customer is told he can take the unit but he will have to have it towed. If it only makes it out to the street, I am absolved of any complicity should the worst happen. CYA is a game you need to start playing... I know I sound like an absolute dink most of the time... Being THAT dink has been very rewarding....

The guy "isn't your customer" - one strike against. The truck is well kept... one strike for. The guy was honest and didn't cop an attitude... one strike for. Is he a regular on TDS? That could be 1/2 strike for or three strikes against. FWIW, some of the cleanest, best looking units I've ever worked on are 3s dressed up as 9s. How many things have we taken apart and the threads are already gonzo? Maybe this guy is smart enough to think he over-did it but too dumb to realize that someone earlier might be the culprit.... Having said all that.... the threads in the cover need to be repaired... This is not a torque critical fastener and a helicoil is going to be a repair that is more than adequate. That pesky little tab at the end of the insert may be a bone of contention - but (not having tried this before), we might be able to break that off before installing the insert and use blue loctite as a thread lube to ease installing the thing like a piece of string. A little care to avoid shavings in the crankcase from the drilling and tapping ops - barring anything I haven't considered, .5 ish or less? While we are doing the repair, the folks at the front desk can be doing their job and try to find out who is going to pay for it. If Ford asks who stripped the fastener out... the correct answer is "we don't know for sure"... because we really don't know for sure. If Ford wont pony up even little... and this is the customer you want to attract.... offer the guy a split on the labour and he pays a good dollar for the "part".... Start with a bit of manoeuvering room and if his face gets long they can pretend to crunch numbers.... sweeten the pot by a few bucks. It doesn't matter which way you do it.... the dice get rolled and he will either be yours or keep doing what he's been doing. FWIW, a clean OASIS simply means that he hasn't had any warranty repairs, right? Oddly, that can happen with some trucks. Bottom line... I don't think the repair is going to be earth shattering or budget changing. Design the outcome so that the shop will at least break even... you get paid, the shops time is covered even if there is no profit to show. The folks up front need to be honest with the guy and explain what the shop needs to break even. So... with all that I can honestly say that I don't f@cking know. Should Ford pay? We don't even know for sure when the injury happened. We should be glad that the guy didn't wind a lag screw in there or drill it out for the next size bigger fastener. If Ma Ford gives the green light, great... If they say "nay"... it's not like CMPs haven't shit the bed before.... Good willing the repair is financial suicide.... breaking even is about the best you will do...

Torque sticks? I could only ever trust them if I was sure my air supply was rock steady... forever and forever... and that the impact I use them with is rock steady - with every set of blows matching every other set of blows. So... we're going to use torque sticks to tighten something.... and, with me in the picture, a torque wrench will be used to verify torque. I tried a set out many, many years ago... and saw enough discrepancy to make up my mind. Was I using them improperly? Doesn't matter... If they can be used improperly and create a concern - they have no business in my shop. The reason for using a torque wrench is to apply a predictable clamping force with the fastener. But there is also a great need for even clamping force... even to the point of torquing in stages to avoid any conditions that might change the shape of any parts (say a brake rotor or cylinder head). For my taste, impact tools are unpredictable enough and really have no place in assembly other than to run a fastener to contact... when we add any device that adds elasticity.... This is a trick that this old dog wont attempt to learn. Let's look at aircraft techs.... Impact wrenchs are verbotten in aircraft A&P maintenance and repair... even for disassembly.

OK.. let's give this another bash and see if the electron Gods will smile on me. Victim is an 06 F350... On Demand code P0113 and, in memory, P0402, P1102 and P2199. Of course this is a truck that is on it's way to a job, good customer and we are squeezing it in as a favour.... with nowhere near enough time allotted for what it deserves. Right away, we can see the search for a magic bullet. The P0113 turned out to be a simple broken wire at the MAF connector. Fixed that and verified the repair, then ran KOER... Retrieving P1102 and P1408 every time. It passes the EGR test. Popped out the EGR valve... quite a bit of fluffy carbon, but the valve moves smoothly. Manipulating the valve in datalogger, we see the valve open nicely... at 100% DC, the motor has only gotten marginally quieter and IAT2 hasn't changed.... OK, we're probably looking at a plugged EGR cooler.... At first I thought the P1102 might have to be reassessed after the EGR repair... But a plugged EGR system should increase the MAF numbers, right? I might possibly have missed something when I inspected C-128 and no time for me to think of checking for a wire chaffe at the left spring tower.... Ah, well... tomorrows another day....

One day, it will be a customers truck again... and there is every chance that your name may be written all over any and all travesties encountered. Certainly the trade that serves your bread and butter isn't making any great strides if we bow to greed and perform substandard repairs. A "downed rack"? This might sting and I'm sorry if it does. But it needs to be said. I do MY repairs MY way. Oh, there's things I'll prioritize.... but if I am going to perform any particular OP.... I don't gamble. I can see your used car guy sitting back saying "Yeah.. Tony worked on it... every now and again we get some pretty ratty work out of him.... ". If I have to do something that is just plain wrong just to keep my job... I'm speaking volumes about myself. Let's add that this is one of the biggest problems in this trade.... Performing a repair... ANY repair is going to cost <THIS MUCH MONEY>. There are a LOT of techs out there that will try and attract that job by short bidding it. This is where a lot of comebacks originate. Everything I do in my life IS my call... If I have to turn into a whore to keep my job... then it couldn't have been much of a job. Wrong is wrong.... saying "OK, I'll do it.." only serves to drop us to a lower level. If we don't take the steps to improve the way we are perceived, we will be forever asking "Hey, sailor... wanna get lucky?". Yes... I have landed my "dream" job.... But when I got this job, I was looking for one. I am not about to squander my integrity for someone elses financial gain. You can always buy tools... integrity is a little harder to gain.

I have this one guy in my shop.... he leaves closed doors open and open doors closed.... he never coils up an air hose (let alone wipe it down before dragging it into someones truck).... never cleans tools or puts them back where they belong... You get the picture.... Some of you guys might know this young fellow (to me, most everyone is young)... His name? Not Me. Young Mr. Me is a bane in my existance.... I don't know what he looks like, can't find his time card, can't fire him.... Even the best of us can "have our moments"... and we need to realize that this is part of the human condition. At the same time, we realize that we need to be ever vigilant. Ever get called away from a task? If you are installing a fastener... do you just leave it and walk away? Take it out and put it back in the tray? Say "let me torque these first"? Two ways are viable... one isn't. Still, I firmly believe that not all "techs" employed in this trade have made sound career choices. Most of what is entailed in our jobs can be learned... like an "acquired taste" (caviar... eeeewwwwwwwwww /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif ). But there are elements that cannot... Many people can "play" a musical instrument - few can "make love" to it. I "dabble" with the guitar.... Chet Atkins I'm not (the drunker you get, the better I sound). "Back in the day", a good tune up mechanic made a decent living... Dale Armstrong and Austin Coil were making 7 digits. Take a look at your entry level people... Which one is going to just flunk out, or succeed on bullshit, or succeed on success? Which one has the signs of those traits that can make a mediocre <insert job title here> into a very good one or even a great one? A wise man once said that we would all rise to a level where we would become incompetent... and be trapped there. So... WTF does this have to do with f@cking wheel nuts? It's tough to miss putting one on.... even harder to miss putting wheel nuts on more than one wheel.... It's easy to forget to torque one nut.... just as easy is forgetting to torque one wheel... Multiple nuts on multiple wheels? Houston - we have a problem (did I mention I watched the first moon landing on a black and white TV? And no, that wasn't the colour of the cabinet.). I would suggest that the "tech" relied on the "one finger torque wrench". And the nuts that went missing were the very first nuts on their respective wheels to be "tightened". Just so you know - I refuse to use torque sticks. FWIW... and you can try this at "home"..... hub-centric wheel nuts and nut-centric wheel nuts can behave differently.... Run the nuts up snug with your impact - don't let the gun rattle on them (I'll tell you why in a bit). Oh... of course you are running them on in an appropriate sequence, right? When you run the nuts up, mark your start nut... if you leave this one to be torqued last, it will amplify the effect of the experiment. With the nuts snug to the first "BUPP" on the impact, torque the wheel nuts to spec... Every last one should turn a little (I'll tell you why in a bit). Notice how little some nuts turn to gain torque. Notice how the first one or two nuts took a lot to gain torque. Now... if the nut doesn't turn at all when we torque it... we have no idea of how tight it IS... all we know is how loose it ISN'T. Are we setting the stud up for a premature failure? In the Site Hub & Member Involvement Forum, Brad made a post regarding "attention to detail". The devil dwells in the details, gents. While I hope it is commonplace for us to pay close attention to "torque critical" fasteners.... the usual practice is to watch the clock and assume "tight" is good enough. With modern assemblies, fastener torque is much more important than in the past. Nobody would ever dream of torquing a bolt the size of an injector hold down to 26 lb/ft...

Well.... I promised a post for a very interesting truck.... After a lot of hunt and peck typing, I got "page unavailable" and all my "work" got lost - possibly in the "lost sock" dimension.... Since it's late, I'm sad to say that this will have to take it's place until tomorrow night... I may have more info by then....

I'm going to pipe in along the same lines as Larry and Stephen.. Every time a job has me snookered, it's because I'm not paying enough attention.... "Sufficient good fuel..." is a lot different from the "Oh, yeah.... it's got gas" we all usually give it on the first go around. And that's not the only step most of us fudge on the diesel diag sheet.... Most of the time, we can usually get away with it... because the basics are either OK or we run across something in our diag that nags us back to one or more particular basic step. Most of my time is spent diagnosing jobs that "don't want to be fixed"... Sometimes, the tech I inheritted the job from will get nasty with me... "I already checked that....".... I have no doubts that he did, but that's why they call it "double checking...". Now is the time to step back and catch your breath.... You are feeling frustrated and that is the first hurdle to clear... When you get back to the truck (I'll bet Larry can SMELL the analogy coming later), pretend that you inheritted this job from another tech. Start with step 1 in SSCC.... Even if you are positively, absolutely, catagorically sure that there are no TSBs for your symptoms... run OASIS. Got DTCs? Enter those manually in the concern code boxes. You admit that you are "green" when it comes to diesels.... Now is the ideal time to get a big part of the learning curve out of the way. Nothing yet? Start with Box 1 on the diag sheet.... and be careful and critical. Use the Performance Diag section in the PC/ED if you're unclear on what and how they want stuff checked. (Go to section 4 in the PC/ED manual....). If there is ever any question on oil quality or level, change the oil and filter and be done with it. Take each step, one at a time.... Do what that step needs. If you find nothing, you will still have had a dual purpose... first in learning the steps (without some experienced guidance right at hand, this gains importance)... and to be precisely sure that this particular point is not contributing to your concern. Yeah, it can be time consuming... but it looks like that's a given on this job.... Shit happens..... All we can do is deal with it and learn from the experience. <When is this windy old bastuhd gonna stop?> The analogy.... The dog refuses to fetch the stick.... Like the truck, the dog means us no ill will.... he isn't stupid and his main goal in life is not to give you an inferiority complex... The problem is that we have to find how he likes the stick to be tossed..... An observation... we are seeing more and more "bad" new EGR valves. I am still "personna non gratta" on message board, but I understand that a lot of guys are having to go through several new EGRs to find one that works... FWIW, I don't know if the valves are onion made or outsourced offshore.... as far as I'm concerned, one is a bad as the other. A SWAG.... white smoke? Yeah, I see you mentioned it smelled like fuel.... I can't ever trust my old honker and usually get multiple second opinions.... Does it eat coolant all the same?. I spend a good deal of time "lost in thought".... Mostly, I suppose, because it is unfamiliar territory... Check out the soon to be new thread "P1102".

Mmmmmmmm, somehow I don't think explaining to a customer that way imparts much of an air of professionalism. My preference might be "internal failure in the <FRED> module".

*Most* printed circuit boards are green... It has something to do with how the circuits are etched onto it (an interesting process, I might add, much like making a photograph from a negative).

Wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if the new tool turned out to be a properly sized punch for pounding the porcelain further into the shield?

Broadcast message 0863 announces the release of a special tool for removing the broken sparkplug porcelain from 3V heads. Looks like Ford has already started shipping them.