Jim Warman

.. turbcharger boost contol position sensor. This is a job 1 truck and recurring memory code P2563 - cleared and punted the first day - truck was running great. Came back the next - code in memory. Cleared and road tested... didn't come back. Ran KOER and got a P1408 (EGR flow) ODDTC. OK... now I might be getting somewhere. PPT W led me to the EGR system test... passed???? Reran KOER... nothing came back... OK - back to my recurring code... Everything is working right now so we aren't going to find anything, right? Wiggle test - looked for bad pins... nothing. Started a hotline request and OASIS told me P2563 isn't a valid code.... PPT AK sure makes it sound like a valid code... Long story short... hotline tells me that engineering is investigating the EBP sensor and tube for this concern... But nobody can explain what the EBP has to do with a position sensor concern. I was under the impression that the VGT actuator physically measured it's position for positive feedback.... Anyone else see this?

A long time ago, one of our Canadian breweries decided to market an "American" style beer. They had a contest to name this new product and this old girl from the prairies won. Her name for the brew? "Love On The Beach". They held a gala press conference to award this womans prize.. with microphones and TV cameras and reporters.... what an event. The preisdent of the brewery asked her how she came up with such a unique name for this American beer "clone".... She replied <drum roll, please> "I called it Love On The Beach because I thought it was f@ckin' near water....". /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif I am.ca..... ehhh?

OK... I wont.... wanna borrow a dwell gauge?

Bruce... something I can be notorious for is "missing" steps... not in my diag... but in describing my diag... Volt dropping the relay in my description is one of those things I forgot to mention because it's an automatic thing for me... I do it without thinking about it... let's not forget that this part is a three step affair... baseline B+ with the GPs turned on, drop the relay at the posts and drop from the feed battery to the relay hot post.... I have no empirical evidence as to why not check glow plug current... it is simply my preference to ohm each glow plug individually. If GP current isn't where it should be, we're likely going to wind up doing it "my" way somewhere along the line, anyway... (let's not lose sight of the fact that if we open the dictionary to "curmudgeon", there is my smiling face... complete with twitching moustache). As for the fuel heaters... I've done a few on '99 up... all with the tall skinny fuse box rather than the wide fuse box (I still have trouble remembering that the GEM "died" at the beginning of MY '02). Like the older trucks, this still gives a blown fuse 30 and all the other symptoms.... I wont pretend to "teach the teacher"... but I prefer to say "I haven't seen <that>, yet" rather than "<That> never happens"... If I have no WTS light, crank/no start and no comm - it is much easier to check fuse 30 first than it is to install BOB and check powers and grounds (or even simply undo the PCM connector) if I find no V_REF (and I'll wager that you check V_REF first at the EBP???). I'm a tactile kinda guy.... someone comes and says "my left rear turn signal doesn't woork...". It's time to check ALL of the lights... check the turn signals with the park lights off.... and then again with the park lights on... (Can anyone tell me what I'm checking with the second test?). I don't think that you and I are doing anything drastically different.... but your experiences and my experiences may differ (simply because no two areas have truly identical conditions). Sometimes we amaze ourselves.... and sometimes we just pray that someone else doesn't notice our errors in judgement.

Larry... is your tech really sure that it is a back up lamp switch he has disconnected? There is no "dedicated" back up lamp switch on these transmissions. The DTR sensor is inside the pan on the 5R110. This signals the PCM what gear is selected... the PCM turns on the back up lamps through a relay when reverse is selected.

The PPT for your no communication is telling you to use a voltmeter to verify open circuit voltage to the PCM.... this is inappropriate test number one.... A poor connection can flow enough current to satisfy the needs of the volt meter. This test method is bogus.. you might as well just measure B+ and be done with it. This same PPT will likely have you test the ground with an ohmmeter... same deal... bogus test. The only way to test either a power supply circuit or a ground circuit is with a load... I still rely on my trusty sealbeam headlamp... Bruce has an electric motor that draws about 9 amps... easily twice what the lamp draws... the electric motor is better.... the lamp is *usually* enough. Grounds get the same treatment... if you aren't going to load test... don't bother testing. FWIW, if you install the breakout box, you can now do a proper voltage drop test with the circuit "live" and in it's natural state. If you have no wait to start lamp, no start and no comm on a 99 and up - it is usually a shorted fuel heater and a blown fuse.... Read the circuit diagrams... spend some extra time learning what all the little dashed lines and sqiggles mean... Added bonuses in the circuit diagrams are the "power distribution" section (allowing us to see everything in each fuses branch) and "harness overview" showing the routing of each harness. One last word to the wise on truck one.... I've been caught too many times (and seen too many techs caught time and again) by checking every fuse in the truck... we can be left not checking a fuse that is MISSING.... Something to remember... every PPT ends in replacing a module... After we replace the module, we discover the bogus test procedures. Read each test step carefully... decide what the test step is really looking for... and test it appropriately (meaning "as if it were in daily use"). Truck number two... three words..... "no start PIDs". V_REF, RPM, IPR, ICP (the volt reading is the important one), FUEL_PW (if available). I think I might be missing one but there is a very good diag sheet for no-start in the PC/ED. I don't like the order that things are in, and I shuffle and change them around for individual circumstances... but I always go with the least intrusive test first.... Nine times out of ten, well start with a KOEO test... since we have everything hooked up and initialized, might as well get the PIDs out of the way at the same time. A lot of guys put a lot of faith in a glow plug draw test... For the small extra time, I'll ohm the GPs at the valve cover gasket, thank you. You have smoke out the tailpipe while cranking, so we "should" be able to "safely" rule out any fuel supply or ICP problems. This choice is going to be a matter of taste... If you decide to bypass one step in favour of another... be prepared to back up if the direction you chose doesn't seen "right". If you're really green (and I don't mean that as an insult - every last one of us started out green as grass), I suggest doing all the tests in Fords sequence until you get a comfortable familiarity. But you have smoke while cranking.... until we decide going another direction is a bad choice, we can ALMOST safely assume that we have ICP, CMP and fuel. Like Jeff said... time to look at cranking rpm... 150ish... maybe up to 180ish would be in the neighbourhood... Too fast and we might have a cylinder sealing concern. Too slow and it just ain't gonna go. A this point, the obvious choice is to check cranking rpm... and that will decide our next step. Sidebar - There isn't an electrical test out there that can compare with a properly performed voltage drop test.... (let's not get into sensor patterns here... that's a whole 'nother game). A properly performed VD test starts with checking B+ with the key on or off as the test procedure dictates to establish a baseline. I like to trickle the batteries to help maintain an even B+ through-out the procedure.

It's going to be rare to find a customer that will admit to doing things he knows he shouldn't... Something to consider.... this truck may be subject to a lot of low speed driving... if the low speed driving involves light engine loads, there may not be a whole lot of difference between this and "idling". Most all of these same customers depend on their trucks as their "lifeline"... When I left the house to go to work this AM, it was -41C. Out in the bush, these guys use their trucks as respite from the cold... Some of them are loathe to shut their trucks off "just in case".... Even these guys will deny extended idling, even though the truck idles for much of their workday. Sometimes we can fix a concern because of what our customers tell us... other times, we fix it in spite of what our customers tell us.

................................. I'm speechless... I know I would have been on the phone to those guys... but that's just my "never miss a chance to rock the boat" attitude. But really, I can't see any diplomatic way to handle an obscene situation like that. If your friends Dad bought his truck at your store, is there a chance that your manager might offer some help? If that kind of story happens very often, no wonder people call us "stealerships"....

With a fridge and a microwave... neener-neener-neener. Broadcast message 0581... fine is $6000 directed at the store - but somehow, a lot of this retribution comes to rest on the techs shoulders.

I'm still suffering through a week from hell... My Saturday to work too /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif I forgot to mention that there's been a broadcast message in the last week or so.... didn't have time to flip through the bulletin board at work (I print them off and hang them in the coffee room...) and I can't for the life of me remember what the number was.... The broadcast message did mention something like a $10,000 (or was it $5000) fine for anyone caught disabling the system.... I would "imagine" that this is a US federal thing.... Not sure what any penalty might be in Canada.

So... has anyone seen the new ESST for this concern? Looks like something the doctor gives you to pee in... X 8.... FWIW... almost every one I have done so far returns at a later date with a catalyst efficiency code on the affected bank.

Jeff... sorry to say all I'm going to do is long c@ck you guys.... Many years ago there was an evil running F150... Customer says "Don't spend money checking the computer shit.... that check engine light was on for two years before it started running bad...". How do you deal with this kind of logic? On public forums, it isn't uncommon to see "How do I turn out that light?".... If you tell them to fix the problem, you get "Yeahyeah... that's fine... but how do I turn out the light?". When I do any of my government mandated inspections, your method of teeing into another modules control circuit wont cut the mustard... I am directed to poll the ABS and SRS modules in order to catch this kind of stuff... You wont believe the equipment we need to be a part of these inspection programs... and our equipment is auditted each and every year for compliance.

Post deleted by Keith Browning

I do a diag sheet on almost every repair.... they get stapled to the hard copy. I am not about to have an auditor be the only person to ask to see it....

If I saw a P1000, I might look at the CLR_DIST PID. P1000 is simply an informational code that tells us that not all the "monitors" are completed... If that P1000 is present and the CLR_DIST shows a lot of driving, we can assume that <something> is keeping one or more monitors from completing... and this could be the sign of a problem. The 6.0 PSD is pretty high strung from the git-go.... Navistar offers this motor with 230HP as the highest power setting... Ford has already upped the ante with nearly 100 more HP.... All the same, all I ask is that my customer be up front.... Disconnect the tuner b ut allow me to know it was there. Drive the truck enough in stock trim to be sure that the concern is with the truck and not with the add-ons. Once we know what has failed and why it has failed, we can make suggestions as to whether we feel the aftermarket device(s) played a role in it or not... The idea is to be fair about it...

Josh... P1000 isn't really a "DTC" per se.... It is only an indication that memory has been cleared and one or more feedback monitors have not completed. Removing a programmer might leave a P0603 instead... much depends on how intrusive the device is. I get the feeling that there is much about this operating system that you have yet to fully understand. I often offer the advice that if you are to fix it, you must know how it works.... This can often be very hard in it's own right.... If you are to improve it..... What can I say?

Jeff... you bring up a good point...... Our shop is lusting for knowledgeable (preferably licenced) techs.... Time and time again, the DP has come to me telling me of this wonderful new tech that he has hired.... but they never show up.... What I see happening.... The negotiations get to the point where the guy that is unhappy with his current position says "I'll take it...". The deal is set, his first day is agreed upon and he goes to his current employer to hand in his notice.... I know that <this> guy must be good because his current employer always seems to do something to change his mind... Downside.... if one ever does show up, I now have a big worry.... did his boss not sweeten the pie good enough and he really was looking for a change? Or did his boss simply look him in the eye... relieved that he didn't have to fire him? Being in a very sour mood after a very sour day during a very sour week... If we are talking youngsters - they all want the big bucks now.... maybe they might live up to it... maybe not.... Too often, when I say words like "think" or "read", I get that "deer in the headlights" look.

I don't mean to hijack your thread, Robert... but I'm wondering how many of you guys are buying your own parts from suppliers you find on your own time... what kind of after sales service you get... all that kind of stuff.... All I ever do is write down my requirements and hand them to our partsmonger... tools... parts... don't matter what.... He does all the legwork for me and all I pay is 10% over his cost. He might come up with one winner or two or three viable choices. If it comes to any problems after the fact, I have him and his buying power working for me. Peace of mind for only a few bucks... and I get it on my employee account.

I admit I missed that in my haste, Jeff.... But there's a lot of techs out there in slow shops.... Having anything in the bay can be cause for celebration and somebody, somewhere is going have that mix of knowledge and experience that emboldens him into adding to his "experience" (good judgement comes from experience.... unfortunately, experience comes from bad judgement). Unless you work in my shop, I wont pretend to tell anyone how something is going to "go down" (hell, even then it doesn't always work).... All I'm trying say is that if a tech is about to do something... and that something doesn't "taste" very good.... now is probably a real good time to weigh the pros and cons honestly.... If a guy IS working in a slow shop.... something is very, very wrong.... and it should be fixed....

Back in the mid to late 70s, there were a couple of options available for the F series, though few trucks appeared to have been fitted with them.... The one I saw the most was a storage compartment built into the box (accesssed from the outside of the box). The access door was located in the lower portion of the sheet metal in front of the rear tire.... I can't remember which side it was fitted to but I "think" it was the right hand side. The other I have only seen two examples of... The spare tire was mounted (again, on the right hand side) in a comparment in front of the rear wheel... I just don't seem to have the time to see what the competition is doing (other than the odd commercial shown during my loving brides "reality show" addiction)... nor even enough time to devote to gaining product knowledge on my "chosen" brand.... With the availability of electronic toys and the burgeoning "need" for superfluous storage, we appear to be entering the golden age of the "gimmick"... On edit... always proof read to make sure left something out.

OK... who let that damned "wet blanket" back in here???? Considering that TPMS is (in the US) a federally mandated safety feature.... Can anyone guess what could happen if a vehicle suffered a tire failure that resulted in the loss of life or a permanent disability? And the fatality investigation found that the TPMS had been "tampered with" and the paper trail led right back to your bay? I have several customers with load range D tires... on a freakin' F350... WTF is that about? Having a penis-mobile isn't enough... they need fancy wheels and inappropriate tires. I have been asked a few times if there was anything I could do to keep the warnings at bay... "not without exposing myself to some very real liability". Years ago, motorists and mechanics alike could be cavalier about vehicle safety. No seatbelts, no DRLs... not even a motorcycle helmet.... But times have changed. For every motorist that wants us to delete an emissions control or defeat a safety feature.... there are hundreds of motorist depending on us to make sure these things are working properly... In this modern world, being cavalier might be setting yourself up to be a "test case" in a court of law. Now, I don't want to sound like Chicken Little.... and I really don't think that the "sky is falling".... But, at this time, it is vitally important for us to conduct ourselves in a professional manner. If we want to be treated as professionals... if we expect to be paid as professionals..... "if ya wanna talk the talk - ya gotta walk the walk...". If we continually "bend" the rules (to the breaking point especially) some will regard us as charlatans and others as prostitutes... we'll do anything for a buck... "Hey, sailor... wanna get lucky?". Some of you younger guys might regard me as a righteous old pr!ck.... My boss sometimes regards me as a righteous old pr!ck -usually when I tell him that he does NOT want THAT job in HIS shop). I used to be an "anything for a buck" guy... then I got smart. I started turning away those "dubious" jobs... The jobs that ask us to step outside of "convention".... I wont cut out your cat... but I will sell you a new one.... I will fix your broken things but I will not defeat them.... Let's just say that "I do well.... very well...". Back to the accident investigators... I do several vehicle inspections each year for the RCMP to determine if the vehicle had an "influence" on either causing the accident or if the vehicle exacerbated the outcome of the accident. Usually, they would release the vehicle to me on the understanding that I would sequester it away from prying eye and probing fingers.... The last two inspections I performed had an RCMP officer in attendance from the time the vehicle was delivered to me until the time I deemed the inspection was complete.... Taking notes throughout the process, I might add.... His attitude wasn't very cavalier....

I think we're missing the point.... it isn't about that pile of metal and plastic sitting in the driveway... it is about people and planets. Most here are too young to recall news reports and pictures from the 50s and 60s... People in the Los Angeles basin wearing protective masks simply so they could venture outdoors.... Smog alerts were big news.... Are we to return to those days in order to reduce the hobbling effect of emissions controls? Are we going to place a machine in a position more important than people? Of worthy note... we still haven't heard about any tailpipe emissions other than smoke.... and I'm getting the feeling that this is what is getting blown up my @ss...

Well... Ford didn't produce the 7.3... but it was certainly emissions that killed it as far as light duty use was concerned... The motor was at the end of it's rope and it was more feasable to design a whole new engine than to re-engineer the existing engine. Add that the 6.0 was only ever designed to be a stop-gap engine... designed to appease clean air regs until technology caught up.... From some appearances, the 6.4 just may be another stop-gap development.... designed primarily to buy some time for current technology to mature.... But both Jay and I are asking about tailpipe emissions.... "smoke" is only a small part of those emissions and is hardly a good indication of anything when the real killers are colourless and (usually) odourless. Untold thousands of dollars (possibly millions) have gone in to the development of EGR systems for diesel engines. If clean air specs don't require these systems, all of that would be cash in the manufacturers pocket... The system wouldn't have been developed and the pieces wouldn't be fitted to the truck. What is needed is some empirical data about what is coming out of the pipe.... Is defeating the EGR producing anything in excess of what most responsible adults are trying to comply with? I have no problem with some guy pumping up an occasional use vehicle (most of these that I see are on the road for less than 20 hours a year - my lawn mower likely does as much or more environmental damage in the same period). To defeat any emissions system so that some bozo can save a couple of bucks at the pump island... I can't find the words.... As professional technicians, we have accepted some of the responsibilty of ensuring that our customers vehicles comply with applicable emissions requirements.... We can't be "police" but we should at least have some sort of concience..... this is OUR air these guys are fouling. Before I get branded as a tree hugger, let me say that I am smart enough to realize that zero pollution is an impossible dream.... But it is vitally important that each and every one of us does what we can to reduce the footprint we leave behind.... Someone once said "we don't own this planet... we are borrowing it..... from our grandchildren". If defeating an emissions device is such a good idea, why was it there to begin with?

Mike, our other two diesel techs have come across several damaged reservoir screens... I haven't found one yet but, not being a line tech, I don't get much more than driveability and electrical (with any automatics thrown in...) most of the time. For the HPOP.. if you're sharp and have a bad vane in the pump, it will show on the IDS. A couple of times we've seen ICP ramp up and then dip and ramp up some more and then dip... never quite making it past ~350 PSI or so. As for broken reservoir screens, I'm wondering if old oil that was too thick to start with wouldn't have an effect on those flimsy boogers.

Can you get the I fart diesel fumes in there somehow?