Jim Warman

I'm still brewing a response to some things brought up by Brad and Dwayne... many abortive attempts, so far but nothing I care to post.... BUT... Brad... you are joking, right? Pulling a cab to replace spark plugs? I mean.... but.... wha'.... ummmm....

A young friend of mine..... well, relatively - he's 39ish... one we consider to be family (my son still calls him Uncle Big) is entering a time where he appears to be feeling the effects of mid-life crises. Last year, at about this same time, he bought an 06 Corvette (not the ZO6... it didn't come in the right colour). Paid cash, he did.... Last Wednesday, he got the urge, again... and parked the 'Vette in his brothers garage.... to make room for the 06 Viper he just bought.... Once again, he paid cash... Now, I'm not telling you guys this because I want any bragging rights.... I first met this man when he was 15 years of age... He used to sweep the floors in the shop I now call "mine"... and I used to constantly give him shit for quitting school. Once he was old enough, he went to work on a "service rig" in the oil patch.. and he never looked back. He learned all those things he needed to know to move up through the ranks... he applied himself at his chosen career.... and he worked hard..... Now... if any of us applies himself at his career.... (don't confuse this with your job)... we can get close... very close... Success stories are still out there for the taking - all we need to do is reach out and grab them (with no small amount of effort on our own parts). I'm a grade 8 drop out.... interestingly, I am often used as a walking, talking thesaurus and dictionary. I guess I'm lucky that I quit school before I couldn't spell any more.....

Currently, our shop is booking for almost two weeks in advance... this is ALL work, not just diesel.... We are pissing people off due to the wait times... many of these are the wrong people to piss off.... Now, upper management (the DP and the SM) both feel that anything that let's us write an RO is a good thing.... Case in point happened today.... 1991 Ranger... belongs to an acquaintance of mine.... been to every shop in town.. has run like a bag of shit for over 6 years.... I scanned codes in my driveway at home for him one time and didn't see anything I could point a finger at and asked if he'd had a compression test done..... "oh, yes....". Fast forward.... today, this abortion appears in the bay of one of my diesel techs.... He played with it for about an hour - unfamiliar with this old of a truck... I even had to explain the 2.3 dual plug set-up to him.... and I can't say that I have a lot of experience with these.. anyway, after his hour, I suggested a compression test. With two cylinders that would barely bump the gauge, the old "oh, yes..." came back to mind..... Again, I digress.... while this travesty is tying up a bay, sitting outside are trucks that "matter"... trucks that belong to people with money to spend... trucks that belong to people preparing to replace an aging work truck... I once again remarked to the SM that we should choose our jobs a little more wisely.... To take on a 15+ year old truck that could have easily turned into a money pit isn't high on my list of "want tos". She pointed to the blue oval on the grill and (with all of the knowledge her 4 years in this business as her authority) she reminded me that we are the dealer and we *HAVE* to fix these things.... What do I know, with my meagre experience? Now... the reason for my post... With the constant backlog we are running, I am asking for a shop with no jobs over 10 years old.... non-Ford jobs limited to used inspections, safety inspections and out of province inspections. I feel we should be up front with our customers regarding other makes... we don't have the tools for some labour ops and we don't have the documentation for for anything other than basic repairs.... I need some ammunition to affect change.... we are trying to be "everyman" in our shop... and I can't see it working at this point. Help me out here, guys....

You can rest assured that it will be the truck that is a POS rather than those good performance parts.... Notice that the thread in question on powerstroke.org has decayed to a discussion on what magazines are good...

Your biased sensor is going to cause any amount of funky symptoms... Curious that the PCM can't identify a biased ICP on it's prestart "sweep". Whether or not this would rate a MIL is up to the engineers but having a code would remind a tech to check sensor coherency... and I can't see this causing any nuisance codes... Of course, I have to temper some of these observed readings with the question.... "what makes 0.18 volts *OK* and 0.19 volts *bad*... similar to the EOT/ECT question... why is 25 degrees F OK and 26 a fail"? On the subject of ICP... why do we (or Ford, for that matter) putz around with ICP "pressure"? This is a computed value, anyway. If it's "right", it is convenient, I suppose... but if it's wrong enough, the PCM is going to display the default value and, without using ICP_VOLTS, many techs are getting snookered. It wouldn't be any harder for us to say "for the PCM to command injectors, we need X volts" instead of 500 PSI... For my part, we do see many biased sensors on the early builds (ICP at the back)... most of these leak... Last one I had, I cut back into the harness over a foot and could still "milk" oil out of the wires... I released the truck reluctantly (retail job) after making sure the customer knew that there was a wiring harness in his future. To try to help Alex with his question.... one reason why a condition may or may not set a code is in "nuisance avoidance".... If any and every sensor "glitch" triggered that damned "check money light", we'd be on a constant witch hunt. It would be nice if, in the introduction section to the PPT, they could list how many times in how many consecutive key cycles the concern had to occur to earn "pending" status or to actually set a code....

After the tirade I unleashed in another thread, I'm not sure I could muster a two pager.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I have some old curmudgeon ideas about flogging "specialty apparel" (clothing that indicates some personal achievement within one organization or another) to deskammisados (this would be "Joe Average" to those not familiar with the life and times of Eva Peron.... literal translaton is "the shirtless ones"... a reference to the great unwashed masses). While a jacket, or a plaque, or a watch or some other trinket will make some feel that Ford (or some other entity) is trying placate them, it is still a symbol of achievement.... an "I did this" that we can wear on our backs and display to the world.... It's not a big deal, but we shouldn't expect a "big deal" for doing our jobs. Be it a hat, a lapel pin or a jacket, someone has recogniized our efforts and, within the budget constraints given them, they are desparately trying to do something politically correct where, perhaps, nothing should be attempted.... None-the-less.... US techs are regularly offered tokens of thanks that we northern types rarely get to see... Now... I'm all for the occasional "attaboy".. I love 'em... but they aren't the be all/end all . If I don't get them, I don't miss them... Ever notice that some folks are "certificate pigs"? These people have certificates hanging all over the place... in their office, their rumpus room, where-ever.... some folks have a stack of certificates stuffed in a box - can't bring themselves to throw them away b ut can't bring themselves to puff themselves up that much either (what about that bowling trophy? or the horses ass I won at curling one year because having fun meant more than winning)... Look at it this way.... someone gave you a leather jacket that you don't really have a use for..... what better time to buy a new motorcycle to go along with it????

Ah.... the "trend".... which one is going to get top billing? Sherman and I stepped into the WayBack machine and landed in the late 60s... about the time I was indentured as an apprentice.... I was a real gearhead back then... wanna talk about making ignorant mods on your daily driver? How does dual quads on a 289 sound? Anyway... this trade was pretty much a dumping ground for the dregs of humanity. If your son couldn't make it as an electrician or a plumber... well, he could always become a mechanic. Even back then, this was a gross misconception. Since I first entered this trade, it has been a nearly 40 year learning experience. I am often amazed that I haven't become a real dinosaur... The transition from breaker point ignition to module networks was a long and arduous journey.... one that just seemed to suit me... I get to work with my hands, I get to work with my mind, I'm a detective... I'm a doctor... I have to consider liability and legality and psychology.... Every day is a new challenge - and I can't let a challenge go untried... Those techs that are leaving the trade were bound to leave the trade at some point in time... I left, once upon a time (twice, actually) - I bought a Mack R700... Thank God that didn't last too long.... Later, I tried partsmongering... and that lead to running a bulk fuel station (along with some ridiculously unrelated sidelines that the fuel dealer entered)... the culmination was a 2AM call from a band looking for 10 sets of guitar strings... and yes, I made the sale. The techs that are leaving the trade are also what I would call relatively young.... I see guys with 10 years under their belt considering themselves as being techs for a "long time"... 10 years is barely long enough for most of these guys to realize that they don't know everything they think they know.... We have a young journeyman... his last day is in two weeks.... He has named two reasons for leaving our store... both of them limp-dick... but he is leaving the trade and none of his stated reasons would have driven any sane person to that decision... Also, consider that three local stores are offering $40/FRH. It certainly isn't the pay (in our area) that is driving his decision... but I'm damned if I can figure his reasoning... Fewer youngsters entering the trade.... From what I can see, the free enterprise system in the US has turned vocational training into a three ring circus... Vocational colleges telling snot nosed neophytes that they will be worth 6 figures a year off of a little book learnin' and no real world experience and a labour system that guarrantees that the employee and the employer will rarely ever be on equal footing. A lot of these young'uns are looking for instant gratification... big paychecks, clean hands and easy money..... Sidebar.... we had a shop staff meeting tonight followed by dinner and cocktails at a local watering hole. Talk at my end of the table turned to "what I did in high school"... not much for me to say there... I didn't go to high school. But all the youngsters spoke as if they had one voice.... "I did just enough to get by....". That, dear readers, sent a shiver down my spine. Last month, our door rate was $119.95/hr. It increased... how much, I haven't had chance to see.... What I can be sure of is that we have good retail traffic... people willing to spend over $120/hr are NOT looking for "just enough to get by...". In some respects, the trade has a stigma.... whether we work for a dealer or an independant, mainstream society views us with a jaundiced eye.. We are a necessary evil and are, by and large, not to be trusted... Most of us here are serious about our endeavours and likely have some sort of loyal customer base... But most of the techs out there are only interested in a 8 to 5 job and applying themselves as little as possible to stay where they are... With a small faction demanding the involvement of root vegetables (onions, if you will) in order to bully customers and management alike in to paying for (in too many cases) "just enough to get by....". Consider this (sorry Kieth... totally off subject.... perhaps)... if diagnosing a concern with a complex engine management system is worth .... say... $120/hr... what , per hour, is a brake reline worth? Certainly, a bay is X number of square feet.. and that bay needs to realize a return on it's investment... But should the guy that can barely do a brake job right be worth as much as a guy that can look at a VDR snapshot and decide where to apply his diagnostic efforts? Tony alludes to "not enough work...".... Something is very wrong with that situation. From where I sit, there should never be "not enough work"... Is this a store with that "we have them for the next <yada> years mentality? Is this a store that nurtures their retail capability? We are fools if we think that a store can exist only on warranty repairs... If a shop is scratching for work, the local economy is either in the toilet or the marketing plan should be put there. This trade has been in some sort of a quandry since the day I first signed up.... "back in the day", the technology we dealt with was so easy "even a cave man could do it"... "back in the day", this trade was headed for some sort of major, and very difficult, overhaul. Today, we are in the same boat.... only further from shore and the water is much, much deeper.... In Canada, we have techs leaving the trade and we have difficulty attracting new talent.... Social changes account for some (I was born 100 years too late - that means I'm a working fool and I think that if I make things good for my boss, he'll make things good for me.... it's working so far). But I don't think we are seeing it as much as you southern guys are... But, in Canada, a tech has invested at least four years of his or her life before they can even consider spreading their wings - and THAT can have a temporizing effect. For this trade.... Ray Bradbury said "something wicked this way comes"..... Pogo Possum said "I have seen the enemy... and he is us....".

When I signed up, I had no idea that Kieth was going to check my "pedigree"... I hope that he at least checked to see if our toll free number worked in the US.... OTOH, if he had asked, I could have told him that I was who I claimed to be /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Doubting Thomas that he is.... I can only wonder if he asked if I was this big of a dick in real life, too?

It's a "Civic" holiday.... the first Monday of the month /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I guess you could say it is a holiday for the sake of having a holiday....

A long weekend in the summertime has no importance???? Molsons and Labatts might not agree with you /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif

... on a day off (had to rub that in - again). After viewing the umpteen thousandth post on another, public venue "I want to know more before I take it to the dealer . Basically a call for anyone and everyone with no experience, knowledge or test equipment to tell the owner what direction he should mislead the tech. I know I rant long and hard on inadequate techs... let's face it, the complexity of the modern diesel has turned generations of techs into near dinosaurs overnight.... But even the best of techs can be led astray if the customer is trying to guide the diagnostic process rather than offer up symptoms. Thankfully, I don't think any of my customers participate in things like powerstroke.org or TDS - at least none have mentioned them nor do any talk like they are getting anecdotal advice (other than coffeeshop talk). At the same time, most of these guys are doing exactly what knowledgeable folks are telling them not to do.... extended periods of low speed/light load or idling operation.... chips, open weave filters, "stuff" in the fuel, bypass oil filters (think on that one for a while, gents), coolant "filters".. and they do it gladly - on nothing more than a strangers suggestion. Not to pick on Dwayne (but he makes it far too easy, sometimes) who is proud not to own a 6.0... I would own a 6.0 in a heartbeat - even an early build (maybe especially an early build). Now that we are past the teething problems, we see few concerns with the older trucks. However, I could only ever hope to treat a diesel right for two weeks out of a year.... (you just knew I was going to digress, right?). Why is it that cockamamie ideas are embraced with open arms... and knowledgeable people are told that they don't know shit from shinola ( http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/114000.html for you young'uns)?

...on DTS, I hope you are having a safe and pleasant holiday weekend.... To all the 'Muricans..... "neener, neener, neener...." /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

We do replace a few FICMs a year in our store.... Codes and symptoms do seem to vary a little but I can't recall ANY of the details.... don't worry, one day you will be old and forgetful, too /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif Before I made the call on the FICM, though, I'd be down in there wiggling the FICM connectors with the engine running to see if I could either get a reaction or create a code. On some of these FICMs, it can be near impossible to reseat connectors on installation. I've found the odd one and even created one of my own. I like to take a dab of brake caliper grease and just rub it lightly around the connector opening on the FICM... helps immensely. HTH FWIW, it is those "ghost" codes that "haunt" us.... is it "one of those things" or will it turn into a repeat concern?

I am reminded of one that one I heard about a couple of years ago.... It was summer time - head gaskets replaced in Calgary..... later that summer, the head gaskets were replaced in a more northern community (larger and more northerly than Slave Lake but naming the town might identify the shop).... still later that summer, the whole province is talking about the truck that has had two sets of head gaskets and now needs a motor....... because the rad was plugged. I'm not sure how far the fan scattered the crap.... but I remember the DOM being involved.

No... but I have to wonder how beer and chocolate tastes together... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif Getting some of these people into the service department is a very necessary step if we are to show them that we aren't hacks and crooks... to demonstrate that we care about them as customers and people... to be personable and professional... At the same time, do we have the luxury of defining our target audience or do demographics mean we need to take nearly everything that rolls up to the door as a retail job? Mention is made of higher door rates.... well - yes. We have the tools, technical resources and testers that most independents either can't afford or just can't get. We should have learned from our factory training and we should have a superior product knowledge of our bread and butter... Ford cars and trucks. We should also offer red carpet service... If our washbays have a dead spot in their day, big invoice jobs get a car wash. Rides to work.... Loaner cars.... Top notch customer service and a clean, pleasant environment. These are all things that higher door rate should pay for.... And if we proudly point to the bubbles on our plaque, we damned well better remember the things we studied to earn those bubbles. That higher door rate should be for the benefit of the customer and not just a means to higher profit margins.

Actually, my biggest problem is with guys that can't copy the DTC and ACES codes down legibly.... The system wont swallow the claim and now I have to get codes.... usually off whatever battery I have handy... The only time we ever see our DOM is when he wants to impress his bosses.... Ford tells us our battery claims are high... not surprising considering the pounding these things take on some of our oil patch roads and the extremes in temp we see. One thing that I am pi$$ed at is having to resort to "creative" techniques to replace a battery that the machine is too stupid to recognize as being bad....

Remembering that this wonderful new battery tester can pass a bad battery then fail it, then pass it again and then.... you get the picture. One now wonders if this new technology is dependable.... If I know the battery is bad, I do what Kieth does.... with a twist or two... I still use the Micro490 along with a load test and the hydrometer if I need to.... At the risk of having my integrity called to task (remembering that we are already sure that the battery is bad), if the tester refuses to condemn the battery, I know where I can find the required codes for the RO.... FWIW, twice now, I have had the tester pass a battery with flying colours... even though I have to boost the truck to get it out of my bay.

Kieth, I believe these are one and the same... it's a hell of a battle getting even the left column done by most techs... even worse when I find that the boxes got ticked but nothing was checked.... What do you do??? I can't get rid of someone that is only "bad" because you can't find techs... Even if a guy is "absolutely terrible", you have to work around him, these days... Jayson.... I think that most that read my drivel see the high regard that I have for honesty and integrity (I believe that this is over-compensatation for a nearly wasted youth - I was the guy you didn't want your sister dating). That honest men remain honest is good... that honest men blow the whistle on usuary is even better... But that still doesn't alter that nearly every call on a pre-emptive repair is going to be a judgement call.... SAs that receive a bonus for jobs sold... this can goad a lazy SA into working for a living or it can turn a knowledgeable SA into a thief... Flat rate techs.... flat rate can make a sluggard pick up the pace a bit.... or it can have him performing shoddy work and half assed diagnosis.... Those last two statements are a sad commentary on the human condition in our modern world. To change the complexion of our chosen career, it is up to us to police the actions of our associates as best we can..... And dealing directly with customers (something that I think most techs would rather avoid) is one way we can do that... though the need for delicacy is paramount. To a point, my way of achieving that is self-serving - mostly because nobody else is doing it. If there is any question or doubt, I have found customers like a well spoken man with dirty hands... even if his hair is shaggy and unkempt and he hasn't shjaven for 4 days... to explain their situation in plain English. They remember you and greet you in the store and on the street (and your loving bride will ask who that was.... "FG#^$ if I know, m'love").... When you talk to them, use terms like "I believe", "I'm sure"... and "I think" exactly as they are intended to be used.... You will be excused for "thinking" wrong much easier than for "knowing" wrong. Ask for some extra time to change your "think" to a "know" if necessary. Ahhh, rambling again... I have many customers that insist on having brakes relined at 5mm or there-abouts.... for them, this is normal (one only has to appreciate SD rear brakes in mud)... for someone else this is oversell of the worst kind. Oversell is the muffler shop guarranteeing your muffler for life but at each and every replacement charging for pipes, clamps, hangers and God knows what else. Same with guarranteed for life brake pads. Many years ago, Canadian Tire (lovingly called Cambodian Tire by some) featured an automatic trans service for $49.95.... parts AND labour were extra????? Oversell is calling all the gravy but turning a blind eye to those labour ops that don't guarrantee gain time.... So there we have it... another simple question turned complex. All we can do is to use our best judgement and, should we see something that is "wrong", we need to correct it as best we can. If our bosses have no integrity, we will soon be associated with them as having no integrity ourselves.

Bruce is quite right about the radiator... The cooling stack is like a three part sifter.... The AC condenser and the CAC are pretty coarse. The condenser stops most of the bugs and this leaves the CAC usually very clean.... separate the rad, and the story changes... Everything else can look great and the rad can be plugged solid.....

In "Here we go again....", Steve S brought up a point regarding upselling work to a noncustomer in for having a recall performed.... At what point in the process does an upsell become an oversell? Is it in the way we interpret any looming concern? Can it be in the way it is presented to the SA? Can it be in the way the SA presents it to the customer? Is it the way the customer perceives the whole thing? The bulk of our repairs is pre-emptive.... we can see a breakdown looming and nip it in the bud.... Rear pads on SuperDuties... with the mud we have here, replacing these pads at 5mm isn't uncommon... the time between service appointments can be enough to turn a pad slap into a budget altering event. Add the financial burden of downtime, the inconvenience of unexpected visits to the shop.... the frustration of missed appointments. Anything that enters our shop gets a QC550... service recommendations are made... options discussed and the estimate is presented. Handled correctly, this is benefit for both the shop and the customer.... Techs that resort to rape are not tolerated. The line between upsell and oversell is a hazy area and, as techs, it becomes important for us to consider the customer, the conditions and the vehicle carefully when we make our recommendations. And this.... is something they don't teach in vocational school. This is what we must realize and learn to excell at our craft.... one of many things they never told us when we figured it was all about fixing cars... The majority of public perception of this trade is in the toilet... has been for many years.... The really strange thing about that problem is that it makes it so much easier for the rest of us to make a mark as "the go to guy".... Every chance you get, meet your customers... talk to them... be personable with them.... discuss their automotive needs with them... show concern for them. Uhoh... I'm digressing.... It is important for us to inspect each and every vehicle that we work on.... only takes a very few minutes to address most areas of concern. We are looking for an "itch" and then we offer to scratch it.... With so many Kwikee <shops> and impersoanl shops abounding, customers lose that personal touch, that sane touch... the touch that is so much more than numbers on an estimate sheet. When does an upsell become an oversell? Not hard to spot some.... others tread a very fine line... knowing the customer helps solidify that line. A benefit of "knowing your customer".... treat him well, keep him happy and those inevitable mistakes we all make will be forgiven....

Steve has brought up a valid point.... when is a recommended service pre-emptive and when is it over-sell? In that vein, let's start a separate thread, so as not to hijack this one, and call it "Upsell or Oversell?"....

Me? In an onion shop??? Wouldn't take me long to be sharing digs with Jimmy Hoffa...... I'm sure that I would be extremely popular with onion supporters and leaders alike....

A rewrite... the tail wags the dog..... A non-onion company and a company bound up with onion rules decided to have a canoe race... The team from the non-onion company knew that you need one clear leader to do well.... The onion company waited while the onion members held talks on what kind of canoe to buy, what colour it should be and whether or not a shift bonus was in order. The race deadline arrived before the vote was ratified and they had to borrow a boat from an onion boat rental shop... it sank since the canoe was maintained by canoe fixers that belonged to the canoe fixers onion and while they all saw the leaks, it wasn't their job to fix them... that guy was on sick leave.... He wasn't really sick, but the onion assured him of lots of time he could call in sick... The onion members demanded that management fix the problem... but management couldn't fire the onion members... their hands were tied. Trade onions ensure mediocrity.. they reward mediocrity... There's no sense in trying harder or being better because all the mediocre people will be mad at you for making them look bad.... Management is simply clearing out the bank account before the onion claims it all... Just thinking about onions makes my eyes water....

Our ambulance condensers fail at the point where the deer or moose contacts the condenser.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Like Kieth, we have seen a goodly number of failed dessicant scenarios.... Got our AC flush machine on Friday and we've done three flushes already - that crap stinks. Just finished an E450 with a crack in the compressor housing....

That's where adequate communication comes in... FWIW, I have been speaking of the lack of communication in shops for something like 30 years... Our estimates need to spell outt any extra time considerations... from rust to PTOs to toolboxes welded to the frame right where the spring bolts are.... We also need to spell out those times when we feel there will be a need for a repair and re-evaluate (I have an early build with two bad injectors and a biased ICP.... with an intermittent no start hot - repair and re-evaluate is the only thing I can chooes at this time). We will have to explain the need for extra charges to the customer at some point and, in the case of a V-Mac or other stumbling block, we can write in our concept of the extra time needed.... This will give the SA ammo come time to phone the customer. He/she is the one that will have to explain the extra time to the customer - it is up to us to make sure they don't stammer like idiots. Communication... Believe this or not... I've had an SA come to me to ask for clarification on a point and having to explain it reminds me of things I have missed in the process... this also allows us to prioritize things for those with difficult finances... Let's remember that it is the SA that is dealing customer direct. If an SA is constantly making mistakes, it's time for a new SA. If they don't want the job, why are they wasting our oxygen? They can go waste someone elses (would you like fries with that?). Our SAs cost our estimates and I have two diesel masters that bitch about how much income tax they pay.... we have just gotten a pay raise and our top producers are getting dangerously close to the 29% bracket.... if you catch my drift.