Jim Warman

Chris... did you say they "refuse" to work on something? We don't so anything illegal - we don't do anything morally reprehensible - nor do we do things that are unsafe. Even though we are in a crunch for warm bodies, refusing to work on something is a quick way to get sent home.... Maybe your managers need to grow some cajones. FWIW, guys.... a decent shop would at least "top a guy off" a little instead of throwing him under the bus.... Sorry to hi-jack the thread....

And Keith too.... knowing that my bedside manner isn't one of my more endearing qualities, I can only suggest that I like keeping the bad news part "short, sweet and simple"... After that, we roll up our sleeves and git-'er-dun (even though it sometimes feels more like bending forward at the waist, grabbing something solid and taking one for the team). If we get the shit out of the way, we can move on to the next project... bearing in mind that nobody ever promised us a rose garden... I'll trade anyone jobs for a week.... My wife found me one of those little magnetic fridge signs.... Says "Good morning - let the stress begin...".

Kevin... I'm trying to get a grip on your use of the term "hesitates".... Used in context, the term means that the engine "hesitates" (or pauses) momentarily before responding to an increase in throttle angle. However, I get the feeling that what you are describing is rough running due to the engine "dropping cylinders"??? Sorry to sound like I'm busting your chops but if we all speak clearly and in the same language... life would be much easier... I'm not sure where the smoke might fit in - I don't recall seeing any in the few I've tried this with.... If it is dropping cylinders in the no load 1800~2000ish PSI ICP range, try taking command of the IPR and manipulate it while the concern is happening to see if you can affect a change... I have seen a few early build engines with some sort of concern with the HPOP check valves in the oil rails that will have the engine running rough..... Along with the smoke (or lack of) issue, all of the ones that I have seen with the concern I mention would rev past the 2000 rpm mark with no problem.... Is the smoke you are seeing light coloured or is it black? If it isn't revving past 2000, I'd consider the possibility of an intake or exhaust restriction before most anything else.... The 6.0 seems to run 'pretty good' in negative fuel pressure situations.

Dwayne... stated that way, we appear to be saying the same things, anyway... I will say that I must have misunderstodd the intent of some statements.... *like that's never happened to me before.... riiiiiight). As for message board.... it is probably a better place without the likes of me darkening it's hallways...

Chris.... we need to be flexible when we are chasing these kinds of things.... and we need patience as well.... The dynamics we need to consider are important.... oil that is thicker when cold.... disimilar materials that expand and contract at different rates as they heat and cool (these can often make sealing assemblies a nightmare). I prefer driving to find leaks since we can create crankcase pressure to speed up the process.... If we have scattered our dye too far, perhaps a shorter road test might be in order.... but we need to remember that we are after where the oil is coming from - not where it is going to... What you describe 'might' be a bed plate leak.... Study it carefully.

Slim.... right there is one of the big misconceptions.... These aren't "locking" differentials... they are "limited slip".

Through the grace of flat rate reading, I believe we are going to have "some" that get two clamps. When I first perused the article, I noticed that the opening illustrations do pull one towards the left side of the chair.... and, even though the seat belt is plainly visible in subsequent illustrations, the mind might conspire against the reader.... It would have been nice if one of these youngsters could have noticed it for themselves....

The term friction modifier pretty much says it all.... The first thing to remember is that a differential clutch pack is simply a wet clutch - not much different from a clutch or band in an automatic trans and not much different from the clutch on most motorcycles. Now.... as the speed DIFFERENTIAL between the driven and driving members of the clutch pack approach zero, they get into a stick-slip-stick-slip situation. The skunk oil addresses this.... Got a LS diff that chatters during low speed turns? Before you replace the clutch packs, check the break-away torque. If this is adequate, simply add more friction modifier, make some tight figure 8s and re-assess. FWIW, friction modifier was the big difference between type A and Type F trans fluids (we were always told that using the wrong fluid would kill a trans.... something I never did see. Before the advent of B&M Trick Shift, we would replace Type A with TYPE F in hopes of crisper shifts ).

You aren't reading close enough, Dwayne - some idiot redhead wrote <75W140 is a CAFE thing.... You could use 80W90 in any of these diffs and no one would be the wiser....> The state of the art of modern hypoid gear oils is the API service classification GL-5... covers most every hypoid gear lube you are likely to run across including synthetics (including "true synthetic" PAO base stocks as well as "semi synthetic" hydro-cracked petroleum base stocks ). All gear oils contain extreme pressure additives.... A consideration.... If a gearset manufacturer recommends anything meaningful, it will be regarding the API classification. Putting a GL-5 spec lube into a gearset that recommends GL-4 can get you into a world of trouble.... Dabbling with the viscosity index isn't going to mean a whole bunch... Case in point.... At one point in time, the 8.8 Ford diff came with GX 80W90 as factory fill.... This gave way to GX75W90 and eventually to GX75W140... with Ford respec'ing fluid requirements to the 75W140 viscosity index oils.... Yet - the 8.8 FRONT axle in my girly-boy truck still specs 75W90.... 2002 F SooperDoody WSM specs SAE 90 for a front axle fill..... As long as you are using a GL-5 lube.... who cares? Hmmmm.... there seems to be some confusion.... Bottom line.... You could use 80W90 in any of these diffs and no one would be the wiser - as long as it bears the API classification GL-5... However - we are trained factory techs and we follow the recommendations of the engineers.... right? Taking some convoluted thinking a step or so further.... Lets click on over to the online 2008 WSM.... <GASP> Dang, Elmer.... jes' look at all 'em motor oils fur the 6.4.... 0W30 - 5W40 - 10W30 - 15W40.... Mah God.... yud think that one o' them'd get yer motor blowed up reel gud.... But it isn't the viscosity index of the lube that matters.... Whatever the viscosity grade of the oil may be, the package must bear the API classification of CJ-4.... And even Ford admitted that running a CI-4+ oil isn't going to "blowed 'im up...". Getting back to the diff..... It is my understanding (and I will state that I have not found any empirical evidence) that one or both synthetic gear oil base stocks will not EMULSIFY moisture well... even with the addition of dispersants... If push comes to shove, I will keep a customers truck at "factory spec".... But I can't see myself recommending $100 worth of oil for the axle on a $400 truck.... The 80W90 crowd is alive and well... but if they are smart, they will bow to the engineers.... Will 80W90 kill a diff? Nope.... Will a gearset manufacturer use "incorrect lube" as a lever if his gearset goes south... Oh, yeah.... Word to the wise.... learn what all that crap on a lubricant package means.... CJ-4 speaks volumes.... GL-5, ditto.... even grease- NLGI EP-1... EP-2... I recall an EP-Arctic but that could be an Esso Petroleum thing.... Can a lithium grease be EP2? Can Molydenum disulphide grease be an EP1? Do we need to think outside the box?

I haven't done this recall, myself... but I finally got around to glancing at the technical instuctions..... How many are installing the clamp on the inboard side and how many on the outboard..... Just wondering....

Having some difficulty with one attachment.

Here you go, Keith.

Thanks, Keith.... I got copies of both 08-09-09 and 05-12-03... I just can't figure out how to attach them (I was just getting used to my abacus when they gave me a calculator, remember?).

Ahhhhh, gotta wait for the froggy translation again.... Is TSB 08-18-06 just a rehash of the same old same old or is there anything new and revolutionary in it?

75W140 is a CAFE thing.... You could use 80W90 in any of these diffs and no one would be the wiser.... Differential bearing failure rings a bit of a bell.... I see a lot of R&Ps being replaced and they come with bearings. I see a lot of bearings getting replaced that shouldn't.... (I also see the odd bearing that someone has returned to service and shouldn't). Some of the deal may be with where bearings are sourced.... but I'm having a hard time because I see my guys replacing R&Ps... If a bearing hasn't had a catastrophic failure, a ring and pinion?

James.... we are at the point where find myself referring to the shop manual at a rate that could almost be regarded as alarming... The changes and caveates to some of the simplest procedures are starting to show.... engineer playing CYA or stuff that will return to bite? From the 2008 Fusion WSM "NOTE: Due to the complexity of the fluid path within the rear integral parking brake calipers, it is necessary to press and release the parking brake during the bleed procedure". Here is step 4 from the manual bleed procedure for an 08 Taurus X.... "Loosen the RH rear bleeder screw until a stream of brake fluid comes out. While the assistant maintains pressure on the brake pedal, tighten the RH rear bleeder screw. Press and release the parking brake 5 times. Repeat until clear, bubble-free fluid comes out. Refill the brake master cylinder reservoir as necessary." How many techs read the WSM for something as butt simple as a brake bleed? (Before we spend umpteen hours replacing damned near every part in the system - simply because traditional methods are becoming obsolete?).

Short post? You mean something that has less than 10 or 12 paragraphs and doesn't include cross-references or footnotes? Something that doesn't have little sidebars and forays into uncharted areas of the main topic? I mean like a really short post - short, sweet, to the point something like this one would be if it weren't someone like me writing it.... FWIW, I'm not sure about so of them new fangled bands.... I like Blue Rodeo because some of their stuff reminds me of New Riders Of The Purple Sage.... Nazareth, Black Sabbath and Led Zep are about all the metal you really need (well, with a touch of Uriah Heep to round it off)..... Digging a little deeper into my old faves will get you some Clyde McPhatter and some Vogues (along with a whack of others)... Funniest thing.... even before the Brits invaded, I never did care much for that southern boy from Tupelo.... Ever notice... in the late 50's and early 60's, it was usually "somebody and the somethings" - Little Ceasar and the Romans - Little Anthony and the Imperials - Dion and the Belmonts - Smokey Robinson and the Miracles.... Wow... I think I'm going to have to spin up some Strawberry Alarm Clock or maybe some Blue Oyster Cult.... Where were you in '62?

Rick, I'm sorry if I sounded condescending.... it certainly wasn't my goal... But neither was my reply the result of a 'bad' day... In our shop, if a truck or car is sufferning from a concern that just doesn't want to get fixed.... it is going to visit my little corner of creation.... On a rare occasion, I might find something really off the wall as a concern.... but, by and large, I will find that someone has under-estimated the importance of a test step - or they have performed an inappropriated test.... I have seen hours and hours wasted because of assumptions.... I have seen techs replace enought parts that the damned thing will finally start and run. Nobody sets out with the plan that they will have this kind of trouble.... but it can certainly happen to any of us if we allow it. By asking those questions I did, I wasn't insinuating that you weren't being thorough... I was saying that "these" are things that it might be nice to know... So... what was the final cure?

This kind of stuff has been around for a long, long time.... It wipes off and re-applies it's make up to suit changing times and technologies.... Realizing this is going to be something many of you may need to do.... Sooner is better than later.... A lot of products use a "money back gaurrantee" as one of their main selling features.... Why would that be? "If you feel our product didn't perform as advertised, simply send the unused portion of the product, the original container, the purchase invoice, a sworn affidavit indicating when the product was used, pictures of the machine the product was used in, pictures of you actually pouring the product into the machine, and pictures of your eldest teenage daughter along with $19.95 for processing and handling.... We will gladly issue you a CREDIT for $4/95 that you can apply to the purchase of any of our other fine products... Hey!!!! What ever happened to the infomercials where they sprayed fire hoses at the six cylinder with no oil in it? Miracle shit my ass....

I just follow the WSM.... Section 310-00 under "General Procedures".... you'll find low pressure bleeding and high pressure bleeding.... Patience is a virtue.

I suddenly remembered an incident from many years ago.... Let's flashback to the late 70s and my marvelous R700 Mack (I was going to turn the hood ornament around at one point and let him look at the asshole for a while.... and old Mack joke)... A freind with a Cummins... NTC 350 or 400, IIRC sent an oil sample in to R Angus.... A big Caterpillar dealer "back in the day".... Analysis came back that his brake saver was screwed..... I am reasonably sure that they were aware that this oil sample was out of a Cummins.

Aaron... you really need to get that keyboard fixed.... The S is missing off the front of "?hit". /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

At this point I think you need to concentrate on the obvious..... A 70+PSI spike and a pooched EBP.... You've replaced the turbo. What are the chances of two turbos having THAT identical concern? Prove it to yourself..... The magnet test is dead... it became obsolete a while ago (some of us old troglodytes "might" consider it rarely, now). If you are doing diesel work, at the very least your shop should have an IDS, a VMM and the VGT position tool that Ford sent out.... You can monitor the VGT in real world/real time situations and elminate or prove a concern. Important to remember... there are many things that we can't judge in the service bay.... we desparately need to recreate conditions in real world settings.... Air flow through the motor (including exhaust restriction AND intake restriction) need a full boost at torque peak situation to properly assess. Same goes for the fuel system (I have yet to try the new fuel pressure tool). A lot of exhaust pipes are double wall construction.... they might look OK on the outside.... inside might be a different story. Take two large steps back from your concern.... Assess the info you have.... The diagnostic process is nothing more than a step by step, logical (least intrusive to most intrusive) progression of fact finding steps.... The results of our last test step decide our next step. You ran the motor at 3500 in the bay and got 70 PSI on the EBP? Boost was? I need to warn you, at this point, that I am an asshole.... You say "dropped cat - no joy. dropped downpipe - no joy".... All day long I get "it was good" from my young'uns only to find out that we have a learning curve in progress. What was your EBP... what was your MGP... do you hear or see anything odd?

A lot of times you wouldn't believe how good old water does the trick..... there is a very real need to assess each task on it's own merit and use an appropriate product... one that experience has told us works well in <THIS> circumstance. I have Kroil, good old weasel piss (penetrating oil from Motorcraft), WD40 and water.... There are times that I simply reach out for one particular can without knowing exactly WHY I picked THAT can over the others..... Has anyone ever used ATF as hand cleaner? How about Door-Ease for a whack of different things? Toothpaste for polishing? Or valve lapping compound as handy stuff to have around? Keep watching the old guys... pay attention to what they do - because a lot of it is so second nature that they don't think to tell you about it. They just "do" it....

Tim... if you feel there is a chance that air got into the accumulator on the HCU, you can perform a "service bleed procedure" using a capable scan tool.... You bleed the brakes normally and then use the scan tool to cycle the pump and valves - then you bleed the system normally again.... In the shop, we wouldn't normally have air entering the HCU even if we allow the system to completely dry..... However, ours is not a perfect world and shit happens on an all too regular basis. My own preference is to do my best to make sure the customer never has the opportunity to say "ever since you <whatever>, my <thingie> is screwed up"... (Some newer models have vehicle dynamic systems that wont let you bleed brakes without a capable scan tool). If you decide against performing a service bleed where one "may" be a wise choice (it's only a few extra minutes to assure your customer get's better treatment than PepBoys) - at least finbd a stretch of gravel or such and perform a couple of "ABS assisted" stops. Actuating the pump and valves should send any air trapped in the accumulator into the hydraulic system and should reveal itself as a change in pedal feel. Important consideration.... If you have had the brake system open, there is a very real chance that you aren't the first person.... What YOU do may not allow air into the wrong places... but what someone else has done might.... And if you are the last guy to bleed the brakes........ FWIW, I currently have an 06 F550 on my hoist..... There is a town about 2 hours away from hours.... In this town, there is a man.... On the breast of his coveralls we see two patches. Over one tit, he displays the name "Butcher Moters"... over the other, his name "Ben Dover". This shop charges an extra 20% if you don't supply you own vaseline or ask for a kiss.... (the kiss? most of us like a little lovin' with our fuckin'). But this would be a truck that could have had ANYTHING happen to it in the shop.... The short answer... I regularly perform service bleeds. It is VERY RARE to find air in the HCU. From the customers standpoint - it only takes once for a laundry schedule change to happen. If the job is retail, word the estimate "perfrom electronic service bleed procedure". For warranty purposes, follow the WSM AFTER checking OASIS. You never get a second chance to make a first impression.