Bruce Amacker

And so does IH. I wonder when Ford will wise up?

I've been out of town all week with limited internet access, so I haven't checked in. I do have an old oil cooler and a bandsaw and will cut one as soon as my back will allow me to stand up straight. Guys, take care of your bodies, especially your knees and back. I'm not shitting you, if I was wrenching right now I'd be out on sick leave.

I'm curious- what led you to replacing it? Does the temp separation rule still apply? (15*F or 25*F, whichever you prefer.....)

I'm not sure I agree with this all of the time. I have a friend who installed a kill switch on a later 6.0 to open the FP circuit at the inertia switch and the truck would still start with the kill switch opened. This is something that could depend on calibration, though. It may act one way or the other depending on what flash level it has. Thanks!

Thanks, Keith. Somehow I missed it.

Go for a RT with the gauge on the housing and beat the snot out of it. See if the housing pressure changes at any time during WOT. No performance complaints from the driver? Good Luck!

Does anyone have info on this fuel system bleeding tool? I can't find reference to it searching TSB's, or the WSM. Thanks!

I agree. It seems if they are worked normally (box truck, wrecker) with a normal load, they have fewer problems. The problem trucks in my fleets seem to be either not worked hard enough, or really overworked (triaxle trailer and 20-30K+ GVW). Ambulances seem to be on the hit parade due to too much idle time and then too much WOT, or something. I've seen 7-9MPH average on the hour meters on ambulances, but there's ambulances that have a very low service history, too, sometimes in the same fleet. It doesn't always make sense, but on the average, the trucks "worked" are healthier than those that aren't. IH VT365's don't seem to have the same problems due to heavier loads, lower HP/fuel rate, and larger cooling system. Also, IH has Uptime programs to automatically install all of the redesigned parts when the truck is in for a PM. (EGR, turbo clean, rockers, MAP, EBP, etc, etc, etc.)

I have also never seen a bad inertia switch. You state it shuts off the PCM, but I can't find any reason for this in the schematics. Can you enlighten me on how you came to this conclusion? In the schematic, it appears the inertia switch is in series with the FP and should not affect the PCM at all. Also, on many 6.0/7.3 engines, they will run with the FP or inertia switch disabled. Maybe not run well, but most will still run. I have proved this out in class by smacking the inertia switch hard while running, and all that happens is a DTC sets while the engine continues to run. I've also had a couple of trucks with bad wiring where the owner would continue to drive it with the pump disabled, and another shop who inserted a anti-theft kill switch (unsuccessfully) in line with the inertia switch. Thanks for the tip!

Wild pressure fluctuations in the older mechanical pump system are normal. I suggest using a long hose on your FP gauge filled with air to dampen the pulsations so you can get an average reading. If you're using a standard style Snappy or Mac gauge, drain the hose out and do not open the bleed valve. The air present in the hose should dampen the reading sufficiently to read accurately. I know you're not working on this truck, and I've never seen this problem before. Are the threads worn in the aluminum housing from repeated lids blowing off? It this is not the problem, I still think there is a small possibility of injectors bypassing combustion pressure into the fuel system as the root source of your problem. Unfortunately, we need a fuel pressure reading at all times to determine what direction to go, or throw a FF housing at it as a guess. The FF housing is on the low pressure side of the system and should only be seeing 4-6PSI. The high pressure is developed after the pump secondary where final pressure is delivered to the heads. If this were in my bay, I'd take an old lid and drill/tap it for a fitting to check FP in the filter housing in the bay. If it exceeds several PSI, there is a restriction in the system or the FP regulator is assembled incorrectly. I have not done this and don't know what spec to give you other than "several" PSI. According to FMC, the housing should only see 4-6 PSI, IIRC. Gen 2 7.3's run full pressure in the housing. I would also interrogate the driver about exactly what was happening when the lids blows off- as if he is at WOT, which would increase the possibility of injector leakage. Has he complained about any intermittent misfire, or does the engine run perfectly? There is a small screen built into the side of the FF housing under the regulator. Was it checked for blockage when the regulator is off? It is very common to block with white fibers from aftermarket FF coming apart. Good Luck!

I've never seen it on a diesel engine, but many times on gassers. I'm curious if there was a root cause, such as overfueling, leaking head gasket and hydrolock, etc.

In general, Cat engines are much superior in quality to Powerstroke engines, so it only stands to reason Cat remans would be of higher quality than PSDs. There may be some differences in standards used during rebuilding, due to financial reasons. Cats were never known to be cheap, but Ford.....

That's possible. I've seen other situations with 8 bad injectors and thought it should never happen, too. Glad you found it. Good luck! It's an E-van, right? You poor bastard.....

FWIW, I usually have a tough time with the search engine, too. It and I just don't use the same terminologies for things. I searched "leaking injector sleeves" in the 6.0 forum and it didn't even come up.....

What scan tool are you using? Many aftermarket tools give poor/erroneous info on these engines. Did you run the KOEO test, too? I'd try plugging a known good injector into it, and rerunning the buzz test to see if the injector buzzes. Have you thought of using the "injector test light" to verify no power to the injectors? I've never heard of this sequence of events- no buzz during the buzz test with no codes. Good Luck!

I took a pic of the back of the 9150-BA bag when I bought it, too. It contains the Brillo pad, large and small o-rings, and large snap ring. IIRC, you cannot buy the shuttle ball separately, you have to buy the complete regulator and/or housing assy. I'd defer to Larry for accuracy on this, though. Is your shuttle ball screwed up? I've never seen a bad one, just guys losing them.

I agree there are a lot of things that are not constant with this sensor, but one thing is constant- when the EGR is commanded open, (no matter what the IAT2 reads) the IAT2 temp should rise. Good Luck!

This thread brings up a related topic: errors on the diag sheets. If you're doing warranty work, by all means fill out the diag sheet properly according to FMC and attach it to the RO. If you're trying to get one to start or run correctly, beware there are errors on the diag sheets that will mislead you. Let's cover them on a Hard Start/No Start sheet like I do in an aftermarket class. Remember most of the guys I teach do not have to play the warranty game, they just have to get the truck fixed. Therefore, the diagnostic steps taken may be a bit different than the warranty game. Here's the sheet/slide I use in class, I think it’s an early 2004 sheet: Errors or alterations in the process: 1. Step 6 is fuel inlet restriction. I instruct the students to only check this if FP is low, as it’s not a quick test if you don’t have the required adapter. 2. Step 10, data list shows PCM voltage at 8.0v minimum. This is too low for a cranking engine and if you see 8.0 something is wrong- like dead batteries or poor connections. I have them change this to 10.5v minimum. Most 6.0 PSDs will crank in the 10.5-11v area if batteries and starter are good. Cranking RPM shows a minimum of 100RPM cranking on the diag sheet. On a warm August day in Miami you will have a tough time getting a PSD started at 100RPM. On a cold day in the northern states, you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell. A 6.0 cranks at 215 warm and I set a minimum of 175RPM cold. Where the PCED people get 100RPM I'll never know. Canadians may have more input on this as I'm sure they see more brutal temps than I ever will. E-vans might crank a bit slower due to battery location. ICPV shows .8v minimum cranking. During the HP oil portion of the class I talk about the importance of looking at ICPV and not ICP pressure in scan data due to the PCM substituting values. I agree with the .8v cranking, but they forget to tell you the importance of looking at the KOEO ICPV, which must be within .17-.24v. I've seen plenty of biased ICPs that read too high with no DTCs, causing a no start because the PCM sees the high ICP and lowers IPR command to the point no HP oil builds and the truck won't start. The PCM won’t set a DTC in this situation because it is within normal specs, just not at the right time. Step 11, glow plug test. I instruct the students to cross this entire block out and rely on two things- DTCs and amperage check. I'll talk about the 7.3 in another post, but on a 6.0 the glow plug module is really good at ratting on bad glow plugs, so in most situations you can trust the codes (on a 6.0). If you want to do a physical test on the glow plugs, forget the ridiculous resistance test they have in the PCED and do an amperage test. Go to the right side battery and find the four fusible links heading towards the alternator and glow plug module. There will be two for the GPM and two for the alt, separate them out. Put your amp clamp ($49 list at Sears) on the GPM fusible link wires and have your buddy turn on the key. The initial amp draw will be in the 170-180 amp range and quickly lowering down to 120 amps after 15 seconds. A reading in this area will confirm correct operation of the GP system. Forget resistance, amperage is the key here. The laws of physics dictate that if the amp draw is correct, the glow plugs are working properly. Why the PCED people don't get on this bandwagon baffles me, as the amperage test is much quicker and more accurate than their test. (note in this photo the demo truck is equipped with a belt driven PTO, relocating the GPM and other items into odd places) A blatant omission in the Hard Start/No Start sheet is not looking at the EGR voltage. If the EGR is stuck open it will flow too much exhaust into the intake and upset combustion, causing a hard start or no start. Look at the EGRVP for a semi-reliable report on whether the EGR is open or closed. If it’s near or under 1.0v, I’m happy. Many are in the .8-.9v range closed. Performance Diagnostic Sheet There are much fewer issues with this sheet than the Hard Start sheet. 1. The most common error technicians make? Failure to properly check fuel pressure under load! 2. Test 12B, IPR command. I agree with 30% max at a hot idle, but warn students that you can easily have a HP leak that causes a hard start hot, but can still have a low IPR command (low 20’s%) at a hot idle. I was actually quite surprised when I first saw this. The most important thing you need when fixing trucks? Good Luck!

There might be multiple rebuilders supply both FMC and IH. Isn't Franklin Power Products in Franklin, IN still supplying them, too?

Certainly not! I'm insinuating ALL kids and cats are filthy!

I also take the covers off my machines and blow them out regularly, but not twice a year. We have no pets or kids so dust is not a huge problem in our household. Reformatting the HD may be fine if you're not running proprietary programs, but many of the programs I have require huge hurdles to reinstall if the HD has been changed or formatted. Some cannot be reinstalled at all, like IH's diagnostic programs. If you want to reinstall it, you have to buy another copy! MS has been getting pissy about this over the last few years and limiting installs for a given license to two. I use C Cleaner in addition to defragging a few times a month. Backups are done regularly, both on-site and off-site in case there's a fire or burglary.

TSB 05-19-12 Thank Aaron for jogging my memory... Good Luck!

Me neither, and I'm really curious as to whether they will fit a 6.4. The local Ford trainer says there is no BOB available for the 6.4, but he's not a true diesel guy. So, what the fuck is an "IPR valve sensor", anyway? Is the color on it black white? Or, maybe it's used on a turbo encapsulator.....

You did see this post, right? http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=23547#Post23547 What do you want the BOB to adapt to? Ford EEC-IV (all pre 1996 OBD1 cars): 60 pin BOB 7.3: 104 pin BOB 6.0: OTC #3235 104 pin BOB (or equivalent) Rotunda 105-R0107 BOB adapter for 122 pin PCM ($406.00 retail list from Rotunda, and plenty in stock), you should be able to get it for around $300 with your Rotunda discount. 6.4: No BOB is available. Beware that some 104pin BOB's will work fine for 7.3 but not 6.0. The reason is the 6.0 overlay card won't work on other than the appropriate 104 pin BOB, see the Powerpoint for pictures. The 3235 OTC should be fine, and make sure it has the 4 "knobs" to lock the card in place. Look closely at the PP slides and you'll understand what I'm talking about. I have all of the IH BOB's and PN's if you need them. If you're searching Ebay you'll find a bunch of oddball BOBs for weird Fords like Probes and ABS. There's a 3235 OTC for $399 right now, which is a good deal for new. I've seen used 104 pins go for as little as $100 if you're patient. Good Luck!

I missed this post earlier. I don't know if Ford has it available, but IH has it under IPR Repair Pigtail PN2501107C1 $13.00 and as a Repair harness- ZTSE 4437-5, also part of ZTSE 4436 Electrical Repair Kit. These are the electrical connector pigtail with the wire bail retainer. I've got pics if you need them. Good Luck!