Bruce Amacker

Instead of throwing a starter at it, why don't you spend 5 minutes doing diagnostics, like an amperage draw test, voltage drop test, and maybe even a battery load test? "Customer said he put new batteries in". The correct CCA? Quality units, up on charge? With recent date codes on the cases? Not from AutoZone? These tests take less time than it takes to explain them when done properly. If you need help with a voltage drop test, say something, and we'll walk you through it. A VD test is very simple, takes less than 30 seconds and shows a bad cable or connection instantly. Yes, you're likely to need a starter, but more importantly you need to understand why it's important to diagnose the system and be able to point at a part and say, "It's defective". If you "throw parts" at problems, you're going to end up in a real fucking jam when you get a bad part or two in a row. You'll throw a LOT of parts once you get a couple of bad batteries/starters/cables/etc in a row. Maybe it'll take that before you learn something....

Huh? I just did one today,(3C3Z-6A642-CA) and took lots of pics. The instructions were just about worthless and didn't mention any colored o-rings.

I wouldn't pay $300 for it. We use a BF 6' prybar wedged through the handhole against the end of the axle shaft to get frozen wheels off.

Nope.

IIRC, the module measures resistance of the WIF sensor (which is nothing more than an insulated pin that sits in the bottom of the fuel bowl) and when the resistance (measured to ground) moves into the appropriate window (I assume the resistance gets lower) it provides a ground path for the WIF light in the dashboard. If you simply hooked the ground side of the WIF light to the pin, water would probably not provide enough current flow to illuminate the WIF light. The module acts kind of like a relay- it senses the water and turns on the light. I would guess in later applications this small module moved inside the PCM.

WIF module, which is hooked to the WIF sensor and turns on the WIF light.

Yep, I checked online, and so am I. That was pretty quick- we just chose the cutpoint 14 days ago.

Those IPR connectors are a cocksucker. They are damaged frequently by techs being sloppy during a repair job and an open circuit kills the engine, of course. IH has repair pigtails available (IPR Repair Pigtail 2501107C1 $13.00), and I'm prettty sure Ford does, too. The real problem is the PCM should blow a code for open IPR circuit immediately, and it rarely does......

Don't condemn the CMP because of the codes, as cranking almost any PSD for 20-30 seconds in a no-start situation will set false CMP codes. IPR should be 9-11% at a hot idle, so yours is just outside of OK, but probably not your problem. The injector o-rings leaking slightly could cause this. IPR at a max of 33% is low also, and I don't know why, unless it has a biased ICP sensor. Concentrate on ICPV, not ICP, when diagnosing any problem on a PSD. The same numbers apply for 6.0 vs. 7.3: .18v to .24v KOEO, .8v to enable the injectors. It died and did not show RPM while cranking, so I would concentrate on the CMP and circuit for a start. Check the CMP color, harness plug, harness near the fan belt, and change the CMP if it all looks OK. Good Luck!

What's the original complaint- intermittent stall? Is the oil reservoir staying full? IPR command at 10% is right on. Try driving it with the ICP disconnected, and check low oil pressure with a gauge. I don't remember what ICP it will build cranking deadheaded, but IH says to ground the IPR return wire and it should build 4000psi+ idling. Why do you want to check ICP deadheaded? "Around a corner"- could it be a rubbed harness? I'd probably check FP, too, 'cause I'm anal about it on those trucks.

My opinion? I'd rather buy a used IDM from www.car-part.com for $100 than a reman one for three times that. I'm willing to bet the 'reman' IDMs are nothing more than spray can used ones......

Alldata is cars only. Nothing is specific to buses, and it depends on the MFR, of course. Buses will be REALLY challenging to compile an information source on, as they are just different enough from the truck to screw things up. I assume you're referring to MD buses and not HD coaches. MOD does have a MD/HD program, but you're likely to be disappointed in it. If you contact your rep I'm sure they'll let you try it free for 30 days or so. You have ISIS on disc, right? Exactly what chassis are you referring to? You know FTL is a REAL PIA to get info out of, and won't release their ServiceLink software to the aftermarket?

What's the fuel pressure measure?

Less failures (maybe) with 6.0 FICMs. (On a van the HP is turned down, and it's not mounted on the hot engine) Way more failures with 7.3 IDMs due to water intrusion.

Correct, there is a TSB with a (silly) update kit that spaces the IDM out from the sheetmetal to prevent water from getting in. If you have had repeat IDM failures, I'd do a voltage drop on the IDM relay and make sure it (and the ground side circuit) doesn't have too much resistance. IIRC, there are two fat wires on the IDM and the rest are 16 ga. The fat ones are obviously power and ground, you can backprobe them for voltage supply/drop. If the VD is good, I'd resistance check the injector circuits to make sure they are correct, I use 2.77- 3.17 ohms acceptable resistance at the injector, add another ohm or so for the wiring. Disconnect all 4 VC connectors and inspect them, and see if the cust will pay to R&R the VC to check the UVC harnesses. Big pattern failures here, and they might ohm out OK "at this time". You know what I mean. If it truly has had 4 IDM's, somethings wrong. I'd hang a new IDM relay even if it checked out OK, as they are a high failure rate unit. I don't care for the TSB update and would make a raincoat for it from an inner tube. Good Luck!

Hey! Is this some kind of stab in the back?

Very well put. Some dealer guys have a slanted perspective of indy's, but I try to see things from an even keel. I could write a book about bad indy's, but I could write an equally large book about bad dealer techs. Remember, I specialize in Ford and IH, so my students tell me all of their horror stories about their dealer experiences. Some have even documented it with paper RO's, which is even more frightening. I will say that there are many more FMC horror stories than IH horror stories because of the forgiving nature of IH's warranty process. Believe me, there are PLENTY of FMC horror stories......

I have found it wise not to discuss politics among friends.....

None that I know of. I'm actually quite disappointed at how little we can do in the shop for detecting a bad fuel sample, and lab analysis are getting more expensive all of the time. I'd put it in a glass jar and see if it separated, and put it in the freezer a few hours to see if it gelled or clouded. Shoot a picture of it for S&G.

The search engine is your friend, have you tried searching Perdels? We've covered this several times already. http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/forums/ubb...h=true#Post8687 Perdels are percent change in rotational velocity, used for detecting a misfire or weak cylinder. There are 8 Perdels in scan data, each assigned to a cylinder of the engine. They are a PID that is very helpful when you have a rough idle or rough engine that won't set a cylinder contribution code. They only exist on ’99.5 up 7.3 trucks and they only work after the engine is warmed up. They are not present on many cheaper aftermarket scan tools, only the better scan tools and OE tools like the NGS and IDS. Larger Perdel numbers indicate a poor contributor being detected. #8 cylinder almost always shows a higher number like 1.0-2.4% It takes about 3% to set a code during the Contribution Test. The PIDs are only active at a hot idle and go to 0 if the engine is revved up. The Good cyls are 0%. The BAD cyls are 1.5%-2.5% and higher (except #8). Bad cylinders an be either a bad injector or low compression. My experience is that it is USUALLY a bad injector unless it is a 99 truck, in which there were tons of dusted motors from bad air cleaners. #8: 1.0-2.0% is normal. #8 suffers from goofy problems caused by pressure waves or pulsations in the HP rail that the engineers really can't fix. Basically, the PCM is watching the CMP with a super fast stop watch and can tell when each cylinder fires, and the time it takes until the next cylinder fires. If this time is slightly too long, it indicates a sluggish cylinder. Perdels are the forerunner to the Cylinder Balance Test seen on all CAN vehicles. Perdels went away on the 6.0 'cause you didn't need them with the Balance test. IIRC, they were actually present but not enabled if you hooked a NGS to the 6.0. The newer gray cam sensor sometimes gives problems with Perdels that mimic injector or engine problems. If you see bad Perdels, try a different CMP and see if they change. Here's a page from my book showing a graphic of the NGS that would suggest a problem with cylinder #2: Good Luck!

I went back and re-read the original posts because it had been so long, and I typed MFDES when I meant to type Perdels on this reply. I'll correct it here in case anyone does a search so it doesn't mislead them. MFDES is available on all trucks to my knowledge, but Perdels are only 99.5 up 7.3s. MFDES is a great way to identify fuel starvation, a complete set of weak injectors, or a worn engine. Perdels are great for identifying a weak cyl that won't throw a CC code. Glad you got it "fixed".

Have you guys ever seen one of these? It's a coolant flow tester. I think it used to be a required tool for GM, but I'm not sure it's even in production anymore. Coincidentally, Hickok is headquartered in Cleveland and Anthony and I are having lunch with the VP today to discuss a new 6.0 injector tester..

I could respond with all kinds of smart ass remarks to that, like, "Have you priced out a set of 6.0 heads, or multiple EGR coolers, oil coolers, turbochargers, etc," that make that set of injectors look cheap. It's going to take more than an expensive set of Cummins injectors to overcome the 6.0's reputation. We do training for fleets that have all kinds of trucks, not just IH and Ford. I have seen far too many lifelong Ford customers switch to Dodge recently and not regret it at this point. The diesel market is a pendulum which has swung away from Ford right now, all we can do is hope the pendulum swings back. All of the turbulence in Ford's diesel products over the last few years involving the 6.0, IH lawsuits and the resulting loss as a supplier, and bringing an unproven Scorpion engine to market isn't helping them. People don't like instability. I have faith that Ford will return, but it's not going to be quick. Many customers will wait several years to watch the Scorpion engine's reliability record before purchasing one. I see a lot of mud slung at the 6.0 and some at the Dmax, but not much at the Cummins. Ford's got stiff competition right now, much stiffer than in the past when GM's 6.5 was a real piece of shit and Dodge didn't build a 450/550 chassis. Oddly enough, the buying public listens to the "bar crowd" as much as it listens to reason, engineering, and quality. Right now the "bar crowd" hates the 6.0, and guys don't want to be razzed by their friends for buying a Ford diesel.

It sounds like a basic electrical problem to me. Either you're losing power or ground to the PCM or a sensor could be shorting Vref to ground causing the PCM to lose communications. A rubbed harness is a strong possibility. How would I go about diagnosing this? Unhook the batteries and load test each one individually. A shorted battery will cause this complaint. Do a charging system test to make sure there is not an excess amount of AC voltage present (.02vac at the batteries idling is a normal reading) Do an intense wiggle test to see if you can get the engine to burp or lose data while idling in the shop. Monitor PCM voltage during a test drive using a breakout box or backprobing the power and ground terminals to the PCM. There are several powers- pins 34, 46 and 40 are powers in, pins 11 and 23 are ground on the rear PCM connector, IIRC. Monitor VREF while driving, too, at pins 45 and 29 on the rear PCM connector and pin 36 on the center connector. If VREF pulls to ground it could cause this. If NPF, disconnect the alternator and take it for a road test. Good Luck!