Bruce Amacker

Yuck. Heat up a long thin sheet metal screw and twist it into the broken stub. Let it cool and pry the bastard out. Good Luck! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Good pressure, holds 60psi while cranking. I had him flush the filter and line area and put fresh fuel in the filter, but not the tank. He's pulling the tank now. Thanks for responding! Patriots/Giants: Hell of a game! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif !

"Air leaks develop on both sides under the rails. after about 45 mins, the branch tubes look fine. Is this considered normal? Rails have been removed all injectors and both rails inspected with no obvious problems." On a cold start, record IPR command and watch it as the engine heats up. It's not so much what it is as where it goes. It should drift down slowly as the engine warms up, and not increase. Final IPR after warming up is usually in the low to mid 20's, and the diag sheet says under 30%, IIRC. If it increases, you probably have a HP leak. (which is what I think you have). Do you have the isolation tools for the banks? I know this is a last resort on an E-Van. How about a nitrogen test? I think you might have injector inlet D-rings leaking and a nitrogen test will show them up quicker than shop air. Re-read this thread with a similar problem, I did the nitrogen test here. http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8266&page=5#Post8266 If I was at my wits end and wanted to break something, I'd short the IPR to ground idling, which forces the ICP to 4000+PSI. If something is going to break, it will do it then. Here's what happened when I did it: http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7040&page=5&fpart=2 Good Luck!

6-ML-1331-ML- Moved to the appropriate engine category.

Hey Guys: I have been helping a guy with two 2005 DT466 (EGR) engines with no starts. They are both on a small island nation in the Caribbean with the nearest IH dealer many miles away in the US. This saga extends nearly a year, with my being involved for the last few months. The reason the time frame is so long is that whenever parts are ordered, there is an extended wait before they arrive. The tech has MD Fleet, ISIS, and a Pico 4 channel, and knows how to use them. It appears like we are facing fuel system contamination/sabotage from an unknown source. These are garbage trucks and there may be political motives behind having them not run. I've traded had nearly a hundred emails with this guy and had extensive phone conversations (on his tab) during this incredibly long diagnostic process. I got involved about 3 months ago when he called to order a book and told me his story. Truck #1 has been a no-start for nearly a year now. On the advice of a US IH dealer, he had already changed the: ECM, FICM, harness, CKP, CMP, and pulled the front cover off to verify there were no spun keyways in the geartrain. It was a frigging mess! I feel really bad for this guy because the IH system has let him down so miserably. He has obviously spent a boatload of money with nothing to show for it. The truck ran fine early this year on a Friday and was parked for the weekend. It would not start on Monday morning. Incredibly, Truck #2 (a twin to truck #1) was parked on a Friday in October and also would not start on the following Monday morning. I bet this guy is afraid to come to work on Mondays. IH had him convinced he had a spun keyway in the geartrain. Being that he has the same scope that I do, I walked him through a CKP/CMP waveform test like we did on the 6.0 thread recently. After verifying good CKP/CMP correlation scope patterns with my known good samples, we found the oil system empty from removing the timing cover, and an air block in the HP oil rail. We finally got ICP voltage up to where the injectors would fire, and I had him make one of Keith's injector light bulb tools to verify injector signal. (The 2005 DT466 EGR engine was completely redesigned and now shares many system similarities with the 6.0.) The truck still wouldn't start. I had him pull and disassemble the injectors to find crud in the fuel galleys. 6 new injectors later, it still wouldn't start, and then we found all of the intake valves hung in the guides and several piston rings stuck in the grooves. I've had him soak the holes really well with carb cleaner in an attempt to get this thing going without disassembling the engine, but I'm not so confident that won't happen now. The tech is really a great guy; a BMW master tech and very knowledgeable about everything except a HEUI system. He has offered to pay my way to come down there (which I still might do) but with the parts supply problems I think I can diagnose it better from up here. He's sharp and follows directions well. The fuel on the island is a different color and odor with every delivery, so you know there's quality control problems. Color can vary from clear, to tan, to brown, to red. I suspect the refineries are dumping substandard fuel on them because they're so far from anywhere. The real problem is a political struggle over the privatization of these garbage trucks and the trash pickup. There was an election recently that was hotly debated and the privatization candidate lost the election. We feel a political entity is sabotaging the packers so they cannot run. He is in charge of the all gov't vehicles on the island, and states he has many times more problems with these trash trucks that all other vehicles. An additional problem is the trucks never get heated up. Many idle hours, all low speed driving, everything diesels hate. The island is 6 miles long, and the engines can't be heated up properly. Truck #2 has considerable oil sludge under the valve cover. What I am looking for from you guys is real world information about diesel fuel contamination. What happens when sugar is mixed with diesel? What about molasses, soaps, cleaning products, and other common household substances? What substance, when mixed with diesel fuel, would cause these symptoms? A fuel analysis is obviously in order, but once again the location of the trucks puts a large hindrance on getting this done. I can't imagine trying to mail a sample of diesel fuel into the US. Any experiences you may have with known fuel contamination is welcome. Whatever comes of these trucks is the making of a wild case study to be used in class. You just can't make up BS like this..... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Did you happen to hook the IDS to this one in class? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

AJ: Good question, you saw the DPF before it was cut but not since it was cut. http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9860&page=1#Post9860 The honeycomb is not in direct contact with the steel shell, but rather trapped in place with some kind of fiberglass insulation. This would inhibit heat transfer a bit and allow some room for expansion and contraction of the shell. Also, the DPF is mounted up front under the cab. To immerse it would require water up to and nearly into the cab. I'm not a boater, but from what I remember at the docks the trailer is submerged, but the cab is usually dry. I have a hunch that a 6.4 launching a boat might not even submerge the DPF. Boaters? Is this correct? I'm sure FMC thought of this long before the release of the 6.4. Think of the nightmare results if they had not. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

You can switch some of the 6.0 injector feeds to do this also. On my list of neat stuff to make is a 6.0 injector feed harness extension for scope tracing injectors. It could also be easily used for extending known good injector feed power to a quiet injector during a buzz test. I've got plenty of old harnesses and several core injectors around. Splice 2 together and voila! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Open circuit injectors might be hard on the IDM, but how would "sticky" injectors damage an IDM? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

No, it should have run on all 8 nearly immediately (or as soon as the HP oil system bled out). Some roughness is normal for 20-50 miles after having the oil system apart, but not dead holes. Like Jim said, go back to the buzz test. Check the valve cover gasket connectors, because they're a prime source of trouble. If the circuits are good to the 2 injectors, it's injector time. When I'm messing with one of these, I pull the valve cover and lay my hand on the suspect injector to verify what it's doing. If you have the VC off, you can switch injector leads from neighboring injectors by flipping the VC gasket over and re-running the buzz test. (Just don't try to start it this way!) This isolates circuitry from bad injectors. Good Luck! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Interestingly enough, if you disconnect 2-3 injectors, they will still "buzz" from the IDM, but if you disconnect them all, the IDM does not buzz. This is important to understand, 'cause if you have a bad valve cover plug, you'll still hear a faint "buzz" from an open circuit injector. Also, I have a buddy in Joisey who has "fixed" plenty of PSD injectors by unbolting the magnets off of them and cleaning the sludge which accumulated under the magnet. Evidently the magnetic force draws metal sludge, which accumulates under the armature plate and prevents the armature from moving. In my opinion, if it has enough miles on it to do this, it gets an injector. Here's Damon's picture of a HEUI injector: The armature is the square plate inside the aluminum spacer near the top right of the photo. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

This isn't exactly true, probably hearsay that started with an overzealous service writer. I ran an independent garage for 25 years and serviced many Jap cars from cradle to grave. Japanese cars do have 30K-60K-90K maintenance plans that are spelled out in detail, just like the Americans. The difference is that a majority of Jap owners follow these plans to a "tee", unlike their American owned counterparts. If you have these 30-60-90 plans done at a dealer they can be ridiculously expensive, but we used to do them for a fraction of what the dealer wanted and include everything the owner's manual specified. These Jap car owners would regularly bring their owner's manual to us and have us do the required list. I NEVER saw that happen with an American car owner. It is a different breed. Toyota had a problem with their V6 engines getting sludged up in the late 90's. They only required 1 oil change per year to validate the warranty. I have never seen a Jap car's warranty claim denied due to lack of maintenance. On the contrary, I have seen stuff warrantied at Jap dealers that was denied at American dealers like brake pulsation, brake squeak, noisy belts, etc. Do you guys warranty brake pulsation, brake squeak, and belt squeals at your dealers? I'm curious. Happy Holidays!

I agree it's a little hard to look at. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif The ergonomics of the interior are really nice, and the MF runs the quarter mile in 14.3 seconds. But, you ain't gonna buy one for $15K like you can an F-150. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

That's funny. My EGT's came out clean, but the DPF pressure sensor hose barb gave me a huge fight, and the threads were trashed. There seems to be a common thread here, I wonder why? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Ooohh, I'm not sure I agree with that. The Big Three's market share has been declining steadily for years with Toyota gaining steadily for years. If you've looked at a new Toyota pickup you'll see they have FMC square in their sights and they're sporting heavy artillery. They build a nice truck aiming at the small business/construction market, and I'm sure Dearborn is doing more than just watching them. The rep of the 6.0 is much deeper than I thought. I figured the 6.4 would come out of the gate strong and help people forget about the 6.0, but that's not happening. I know more than a few loyal Ford customers for decades that have defected to other brands. (PS I don't drive a Toyota pickup) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Merry Christmas!

Have you guys seen the '08 IH engines with the rubber molded wiring harnesses yet? Too cool, and almost no way there will be vibration problems. I'm sure this will filter down to all of their engines, and probably PSD's, Ford MD's and Chevy MD's in the next couple of years. Merry Christmas! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif

That's a bolted flange between the units. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Yes, I've had some fleets with delamination problems, and FMC declined to warranty the tanks, saying it was a contamination problem. The problem seems fairly isolated, but when it happens, it happens BIG. I have a fleet of ambulances in Oregon that claims to have put dozens of tanks in their E-vans a couple of years ago due to this. I have also had or heard of this problem in northern California and the Chicago area. I don't know what the root cause was, as any info I had was second hand. Some of the vehicles were very new when it happened and it made for some really unhappy customers. My personal opinion is that it was not biodiesel or fuel contamination, it was tank linings that were not built to take the real world. Merry Christmas! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Hmm, I'm bored, it's almost Christmas Eve and I got nothing better to do. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Let's take a $4000 exhaust and cut it open. I'm always curious to see what's inside. Here's the end of the DPF before the cut. Here's the inlet of the DOC before the cut. Note that with only 2400 miles (when this truck was totaled) the DPF is showing some blockage... The EGT's all appear to be the same PN. Note the carbon from 11 to 12 to 13. EGT13 and the outlet of the DPF. Buzz it through the band saw. The white stripe on the end of the DPF core doesn't mean anything, it's just where the saw blade got stuck and moved over a bit. Closeup of the DOC core: You can clearly see the end of every other DPF "tube" blocked off, so the gasses have to travel through the side wall. the DPF is really clean, overall. Both the DPF core and the DOC core weren't secured in any way, they were packed with some kind of fiberglass insulation. All 4 halves fell out immediately after the cut was made. Both DPF and DOC cores were exactly what you'd expect: Lightweight, fragile ceramic honeycombs that crumbled with the pressure of a thumbnail and weighed only a couple of pounds. I've been waiting for more 6.4's to hit the boneyards, as there's only a few nationwide right now. I was able to get the whole exhaust including sensors and tailpipe, electric water pump, baby radiator, and fuel lift pump from this one in Alabama. There's a law against selling used cats, and some of the yards didn't want to talk to me about selling them. One guy literally hung up on me. Imagine having the phone ring and having some meathead (like me) telling you that I'm not going to use it on a truck, I'm going to cut it in half to see what's inside. Yea, right, click. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif I did finally get a yard to part with one, but I had to fax him a letter stating what I was going to use it for. But it wasn't cheap.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Merry Christmas! P.S. I still don't see hardly any 6.4's on the road in Ohio. Anthony taught in Wyoming this week and said there were plenty of them out there. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif P.P.S. Hey, look at that! My ratings say I'm a flipping genius now!

Then get your %$#&! ass over here and make it work, then, smart guy! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif The PC shows an icon that has connection, and packets sent and received for both of my networks (VCM and internet). I named the VCM network "red" 'cause it makes you choose a color, but my Teradyne manager sometimes shows a network called "black", so I tried renaming the VCM black, but it still won't connect. I also found out I can only hook to one network at a time- it's either my internet, or the VCM. That's gonna make download style calibration updates interesting..... It does still connect with the USB cable. It's interesting in their help files, every other sentence is "you may have to hook up the USB cable". Ugh.

Yea, well, don't hold your breath. I got mine today, too, and have been fupping around with it for the last two hours. Installed the stuff per instructions, and not only did it not work, it corrupted my wireless network so my internet wouldn't work either. 30 minutes with tech support on the phone going through stuff, they ran out of ideas and said they'd call me back. Yea, right. I just got my internet working again a few minutes ago. I know another buddy who tried installing his last night and couldn't get it to work, either. I hope your PC networking skills are better than mine, 'cause it's gonna be a fun one. If it's idiot proof, than I'm one hell of an idiot. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

For the customer's sake I hope it all goes well and out the door. Sometimes I'm an optimist, and sometimes I'm not. Something smells bad with this one..... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Good Luck!

PS If you want hard evidence to show him, get an oil analysis (assuming it still has oil in it). Napa/Wix PN 4077, $12, you mail it off and they send the results in a week or so. You get a computerized level of about 40 things in the oil. It's well worth it, and a very commonly overlooked diag method. FWIW, FMC does not identify oil analysis as a valid test. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Good Luck!

I'll agree, with an asterisk- Most of the time the fuel system components live after a high octane cocktail, but I did have a low mileage 7.3 years ago that lost 3 injectors within minutes of a gasoline fuel up. The funny thing is that it wasn't the drivers fault, the semi driver put the fuel in the wrong hole in the ground, dumping several thousand gallons of gasoline into the underground diesel tank. It made the 6 o'clock news to try to find everyone who had bought diesel fuel at that station that day. Why was it such a big deal? Because some people run diesel fuel in kerosene heaters. Have you ever seen a 50/50 mix of gas and diesel in a kero heater? It makes the 11 o'clock news! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif