Bruce Amacker

I can tell you a really long horror story about a missing filter check valve. Remember that this valve probably fell out years ago, and the engine has run without an oil filter since then. If the oil has a choice of either going through the filter, or going around it, it will choose to go around it. Oil, and electricity, are lazy, kinda like a flat rate tech. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif They will choose the path of least resistance. Running without a filter causes the oil cooler to become the filter. This was a really difficult pic to shoot, and this is the best I got: I was called in to diag an early 7.3 ICP problem after it had received a LP pump, new timing cover, one piston, oil pan, many other parts, and every HP oil component multiple times. I had the guy do pretty much what I'm telling you, had him remove the oil cooler and check flow from the LPOP, etc. He calls me and says, "Shouldn't I be able to run solvent through the oil cooler?" I said yes, of course, and he replies that when he puts the oil cooler in the solvent tank, no solvent can flow through it. It was plugged with metal shavings! This was at a local shop and I was able to take the pics, and inform the shop owner that the $7500 worth of work he did on this engine was going into a core motor. Not a good day. Suggest to your customer that this engine should be scrapped, because it is a time bomb, ready to bite the big one at any minute. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cover.gif Good Luck, you're gonna need it!

Jim: A friendly warning: To be confident with scope diagnosis you have to be comfortable with the scope. This means using it on a regular basis to be familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the particular scope. Most scopes have an "Achilles Tendon", or something that will cause the waveform to deform. These things might be fluorescent lights, unshielded leads, bad leads, an extension cord nearby, or even the AC charger on the laptop. I have several sets of leads and can get different patterns depending on which set I use. Having a "sixth sense" about why the pattern is not what you'd expect is very important, and what to "try" in an attempt to get the pattern to straighten out. This is developed over time and experience using the scope. I've taken more scope classes than I've taught, and my instructors have been national level trainers and the best scope guys in the country. Several of these classes have been a full week in length, nearly all hands-on. What I've learned from these guys is beyond explanation. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif

Here? http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9127&page=1#Post9127 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

You guys are fu$%!& MEAN! Talk about putting salt in the poor bastards wound! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif

I wouldn't pull the motor unless you have good reason. Check the pump like this, it should be .003-.004", but it will be .010-.015", so you can justify a pump. Put the new pump on and remove the oil cooler. Crank the engine and see if oil comes out from the port on the left side of the timing cover. If it does, hold your hand over it and have an assistant crank the engine to see if it will build some kind of pressure. If it won't build pressure, the deaeration valve might have fallen out of the backside of the timing cover. Find a definite direction before you take stuff apart. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

What do you mean by mangled? Broken? The "plate thing" popped out of the aluminum slots? Damaged on the assembly line? You had to mangle it getting it out? Just curious.

Lots. If you fill the reservoir and it does not start, do basics like checking for leaks at the head with an air gun and replacing the IPR with a known good one. You may have two problems, because if the reservoir is empty, you fill it, and it won't start, it's hard for one problem to cause that. LP system: Start with making sure you have low pressure oil. If you don't, check the oil (duh!), and pull the oil filter and see if there is pressure or volume cranking. Early 7.3's are known for several LP problems: Make sure the bypass check valve is present visually above the filter, as the early ones are staked in instead of a snap ring and they tend to fall out, leaving the engine to run for years with no filtration. If the check valve is missing, stop there and tell him he needs an engine. The HP reservoir can leak down because of a design flaw, and a standpipe was added in '96. There is a deaeration valve in the rear of the timing cover that falls out, causing no LP oil at all. The pickup tube has a tendency to crack, causing a suction leak. And, the oil pumps wear out. Need more? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

I enhanced this a bit- note the CMPO base line drops below zero. I'd be checking powers and grounds real well. Good Luck!

Your label maker doesn't have spellcheck built in? (BG!)

Now I'm back with you thinking it's PCM. Could there be a power or ground issue that was disturbed while the engine was installed? You don't have a BOB, right? Can you scope powers and grounds to the PCM easily, or is this time consuming?

Oooooohhhhh, that hurts. Did you ever notice the more we get hurt, the longer we remember it?

Beware that all 42 way connectors are not the same. Gassers look the same, but won't plug in. BTDT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I made the same thing quicker with valve cover gasket connectors, but rarely use it now. PS: Somewhere I read about a tech who made one of these with 8' of cable, so that two similar trucks could be parked side by side, and the engine on one could be run with the electronics from the other. I thought this was a cool idea but I can't remember if it was a DTS guy who built it.

To expand on this, many things can corrupt a sensor signal and piss off the PCM. Some of the things I've ran into are: *Alternators with either a bad diode rectifier or "brush bounce" from being parked a long time with the brushes in one spot. Like Jim says, unplug the alt and it goes away. The charging system may have no other complaints like a dead battery, but on a heavy load test the output amperage may be low. *Wiring harnesses with "green death" allowing voltage to bleed between circuits in a connector. *Wiring harnesses where the vinyl insulation has become conductive, allowing voltage to bleed between circuits. (I've proven this one FOUR times with a scope, much to my own disbelief!) *High amperage circuits running parallel with a sensor circuit, inducing voltage via magnetic induction (EMI/RFI). IH recently released a TSI to move a battery cable 1.5" to prevent a problem. *Spikes from two way radio transmissions. ("It runs fine, except when I key the mike") *"Drunk" auxiliary processors corrupting data bus circuits. (Anthony just fixed a DT that drove some dealer techs to drink. Complaint: PCM controlled engine fan runs all of the time. After trying many parts, the problem turned out to be J1939 data bus corruption from the Allison tranny processor babbling on the bus line) *Power supply circuits with green death that caused voltage drop on heavy loads. These won't always show up on a DVOM because of the speed of when it happens. *Bad grounds causing weird stuff. You think voltage dropping a ground with a DVOM is enough? Boy, can I show you some neat sensor waveforms caused by bad grounds! Always hook your scope negative to the battery negative post. Some of the best trainers in the country do not check grounds with a DVOM. Being proficient with a scope is the only way you'll find some of these problems. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Here's my CKP out idling, note there is one pulse about every 1.5ms. I wish I had taken a longer capture showing the identifier. Please check my mathematics: at 1.5ms per pulse, divided into 60,000 (the number of ms in a minute) gets 40,000. 40,000 divided by 60 (CKP teeth, which are actually 58 but at a 60 tooth pulse rate) gets 667 RPM, which the engine was idling at when the waveform was taken. Here's my CMP out idling, note the time base is in seconds, not MS and there is about one pulse every .2 sec, which would work out to about 600RPM: My head hurts. I need a beer. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif

Ditto here. They called and I ordered. Why am I surprised? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/surprise.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif

Do you have time to scope the CMP/CKP?

Stupid question, but these trucks have the latest flash in them, right? Do they have any weird aftermarket stuff like a boom with a remote throttle? I had one drive me nuts with a secondary APS wiring issue. (butchered connectors)

I just called Rotunda, it is not in stock with no release date available, and it's $405 for us retail bastards that don't work for Ford. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif "We'll call you when it becomes available." Yea, right.

Agreed. I think the WSM has a misprint, showing KOEO at .02v when it means to say .2v. I use .18-.24 KOEO (0psi) as my limits. This doesn't say it's good, it just means it might be OK. The only true way to check bias is with a "tee" fitting and adapter like I did a while back. Original thread: http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/forums/ubb...gonew=1#UNREAD: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Of course you can use the picture! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif The part number for the STC update kit with this new fitting is IH p/n 1879930c91. I don't think FMC has it available yet. I would think you guys would get the info before I would.

A late response I realize, but food for thought. I don't know if you guys have a high amp probe for your VMM, but you can also do an electronic compression test in a matter of seconds with a high amp clamp and a scope. Here's a known good capture from a 2005 DT466. You want to see the humps about the same, as they represent each compression stroke. You can sync another channel off an injector feed or the CMP/CKP to identify which cylinder is giving you grief. Not as dead accurate as a mechanical compression gauge, but is almost as fast as the IDS to set up and can back up your IDS results if you're in doubt. (Personally, the IDS has always been dead on if you ask me) Here's the amp clamp I use, it should work fine with the IDS/VMM. These guys are great with tech support, also, I know them well. http://www.pc-oscilloscopes.com/product_info.php/cPath/32_66/products_id/65 Good Luck!

Jim: I see you have your tree up, eh? Looks nice!

I've always attributed HP oil failures to the high pressure oil pump pulsations caused by the HPOP. If they would have put a big accumulator of some sort in these engines, failures would drop dramatically, in my opinion. They "tried" to put in an accumulator in all of these engines by using oversized galleys that would trap air, absorbing some of the pulsations. The '05 up pump is a 4 piston V style pump. The older pump uses a 7 piston swash plate design. Less pistons, more pulsations. More pulsations, more HP failures. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/surprise.gif Side note: the '04 round pump looks like the '03 pump but it's a different PN. I think I remember reading somewhere it has more volume than the '03 pump. Larry, what's the difference between a 3C3Z-9A543-AARM and a 4C3Z-9A543-AARM? Any idea? Are they the same visually? Anybody?

That's because '98 is a funny model year, there were no 1998 F-350's ever built. Trucks built into late '97 were titled as '97s and trucks built starting January of '98 were titled as '99s. I thought they did build '98 F-250 PSDs and but not '98 F-350s. Maybe the '98 F-250s were gassers. I use this tidbit in class to emphasize the need to verify the 10th digit for ordering parts. I know we were burned several times going by the build date....

The blue ones are DT466E sensors used from 1996 to 2004. They do interchange with the 7.3 sensors but the units do affect the timing slightly. Supposedly, the black sensors advance the timing a few degrees over the blue sensors, and are a IH factory fix for retarded timing from production tolerance stackup on DT engines. I've heard of guys putting black sensors in DT engines to advance the timing a bit for power. I've also heard of black sensors causing burned pistons in DT engines. Assuming this is true, (and I have reason to believe it is) removing a blue CMP and installing a gray CMP could increase the performance. I'd talk to the cust to be sure. PS the blue sensors fail just as often as the black sensors..... Have Fun!